1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

Question SCN Home position when GameEngine starts is incorrect

Discussion in 'SimTools DIY Version' started by Jeremy Corbett, Feb 18, 2018.

  1. Jeremy Corbett

    Jeremy Corbett New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Balance:
    167Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, SCN6, Motion platform
    Hi All,
    I am having an issue where my SCN6's are not correctly centering when GameEngine loads.
    If I run the homing routine before running GameEngine it finds the endpoints of each SCN and centers as expected, however, when I load GameEngine and it does its initializing routine, the "home" points are off center on all 3 DOF.
    The sim is usable and has full motion as expected (running iRacing) but the "home" position is not correct.
    I can go into Output Testing and move each axis into the correct position but once Output testing is turned off, all actuators go back to the "fake" home.

    Hardware Details:
    1. DIY
    2. 3 DOF (roll, pitch & yaw)
    3. SCN6 actuators
    4. SCN interface

    Software Details:
    1. Simtools 2.2
    2. iRacing 64bit plugin
    3. Settings are as per attached.

    Thanks.

    DIY 3DOF iRacing Settings.PNG
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    17,085
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    124,042Coins
    Ratings:
    +9,720 / 47 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    What is the physical design of your rig, can you please post some pictures of it, because your Axis Allocations are unlike a traditional 3DOF, or even a 2DOF+Traction Loss, though I guess you may have dedicated axis.

    In addition your Axis Assignments % totals are likely too high, you can go a little over but should aim for around 100% total: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/axis-assignment-percentage-totals.120/
  4. Jeremy Corbett

    Jeremy Corbett New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Balance:
    167Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, SCN6, Motion platform
    Hi noorbeast,

    The physical design of our rig is 1 actuator per axis in a pitch/yaw/roll. Here is a video from testing earlier today using the settings above:



    I understand about potential issues with percentages being over 100% total, however this homing issue occurs when I first start GameEngine, long before I even start iRacing. I believe the issues lies in the startup sequence when GameEngine is first loaded. From what I have watched in other builders videos, GameEngine startup should drive each axis to the end points and then return to the middle "home" position, however this doesn't happen.

    I have made sure that there are no mechanical binding issues with the rig, and when I use a testing program, all axis home correctly.

    Does GameEngine allow access to the startup script when using SCN's?
    Does GameEngine HAVE to re-home the actuators on startup or can it run from a "pre-homed" position?

    Finally, I appreciate any and all feedback you can give on the axis assignments and profile I am using.

    Cheers.
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    17,085
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    124,042Coins
    Ratings:
    +9,720 / 47 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I don't use SCNs but normally when you drop into a game SimTools will apply whatever the geometry of the track position is, it does not go through a homing routine.

    Great to see you picked an Aussie iconic track for the video :thumbs
  6. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    3,952
    Occupation:
    Computer Technician
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon - USA
    Balance:
    37,019Coins
    Ratings:
    +4,089 / 11 / -0
    Having chatted with dyadic systems (the scn makers), I was told that the homing routine includes the buffer zone that should not be used.

    So i corrected the issue in Simtools 2.2.
    All you have to do is re-center you axes on your sim and your off to the races.
    This small change with insure the live of the actuators.

    Take care,
    yobuddy
  7. Jeremy Corbett

    Jeremy Corbett New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Balance:
    167Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, SCN6, Motion platform
    Hi yobuddy,

    Thanks for your reply. The homing method for SCN's is to drive to the extents, detect peak torque and then halve the distance to give the "home" position. What seems to be happening on GameEngine startup is that it doesn't get all the way to the first extent (e.g. yaw Right), but is DOES get all the way to the second (yaw Left), and then when GameEngine calculates the mid point it is mechanically off center. We use Axis Limiting set to 90% to protect the actuator end points (as per the SimTools documentation) during game run, but to know where that 90% is, the actuators MUST find the absolute end points during the homing sequence.

    If the homing sequence doesn't find the end points, we end up using only a fraction of the available safe movement, and have varying "home" positions depending on where the actuators were positioned when GameEngine was started.
  8. Jeremy Corbett

    Jeremy Corbett New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Balance:
    167Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, SCN6, Motion platform
    Hi yobuddy,

    A little more information... This rig has been running with these actuators for about a year using previous versions of SimTools. The end detection and centering in the older versions was perfect and the mechanical design of these SCN mounts, lever arms and the actual SCN's hasn't changed. I don't want to be forced to re-engineer all 3 actuator mounts and lever geometry.

    Is it possible to "pre-home" the SCN's before starting GameEngine and then have it run from that position without needing to re-home?
  9. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    3,952
    Occupation:
    Computer Technician
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon - USA
    Balance:
    37,019Coins
    Ratings:
    +4,089 / 11 / -0
    Hi @jeremy,
    Please download the official programming tool from the bottom of this page.
    http://www.automation4less.com/servact1.htm
    "Download programming software"

    Will you please verify that the new SCN interface plugin centers like in there software?
    It has a startup routine and it should leave it centered like the new plugin.
    I just want to confirm my findings is all.

    I can build a 'throwback' SCN Interface driver easy enough.
    Just drop into the Plugin Updater to install it.
    But I won't be able to do it till tomorrow, as i have the nieces and nephews over in a few for a quake3 lan party sleepover! lol

    I would be very interested to hear what your finding are with the 'programming software'.
    take care.
    yobuddy
  10. Jeremy Corbett

    Jeremy Corbett New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Balance:
    167Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, SCN6, Motion platform
    Hi yobuddy,

    That is the software I have been using to check whether the issue with the SCN's or with GameEngine. I used it to troubleshoot error codes and jog the actuators to confirm they had full travel. I didn't use this software to check the homing though. For all applications using SCN's (prior to building this sim rig) we have written a VB tool that allows us to connect, home and jog as needed. Using this bit of software allows us to check that the SCN's are exactly at their midpoint prior to designing mounts and lever arms. For previous versions of SimTools the homing in GameEngine has always matched what our software did.

    You mentioned a new SCN interface. I downloaded a fresh copy of v2.2 on the weekend... would this be included in the latest release? If not, s there a link where I can download this to test?

    If you are able to write an SCN interface that acts the same as previous versions that would be awesome.

    Enjoy your LAN party :)
  11. bruce stephen

    bruce stephen Hammer doesnt fix it, must be electrical

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,293
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    michigan
    Balance:
    9,091Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,231 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Jeremy Corbett

    Jeremy Corbett New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Balance:
    167Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, SCN6, Motion platform
    Thank you! Are you able to share your axis settings for iRacing?
  13. Mats

    Mats New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2017
    Messages:
    21
    Occupation:
    IT engineer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Balance:
    311Coins
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, SCN6, Motion platform
    @yobuddy, is there a possibility to change the scn plugin to have a servo gain setting in simtools ?
    I have changed this with the "Dyadic/Miraiintertech TBVST/Termi-BUS command output tool" and the gain setting.
    I think this would be a very welcome feature for those who want to bring down the noise level on theirs SCNs.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. bruce stephen

    bruce stephen Hammer doesnt fix it, must be electrical

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,293
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    michigan
    Balance:
    9,091Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,231 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I remembered @Historiker had an issue with the plugin awhile ago where heave was causing his rig to go to the top of the heave axis. If im not mistaken it has to do with the way Iracing reports gravity calc. its not zero it reports a 1 as 0
    yes ill take a screenshot l8r today. my heave/extra2 is only at 1 or 2 tho because of sensitivity.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. bruce stephen

    bruce stephen Hammer doesnt fix it, must be electrical

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,293
    Occupation:
    general contractor
    Location:
    michigan
    Balance:
    9,091Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,231 / 9 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    @Jeremy Corbett I would also suggest using sway instead of roll. roll will give you track angle but it doesnt degrade as it should with the addition or increase of sway thru the turns. this is most evident at higher banked high speed turns. it may just be the way the game reports at this time.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Jeremy Corbett

    Jeremy Corbett New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Balance:
    167Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, SCN6, Motion platform
    @yobuddy Have you had a chance to look at the updated startup routine that homes the same as previous version and external tools?
    Thanks,
  17. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    3,952
    Occupation:
    Computer Technician
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon - USA
    Balance:
    37,019Coins
    Ratings:
    +4,089 / 11 / -0
    @Jeremy Corbett,
    New SCN 'Throwback' Interface PM'ed to you for testing buddy.
    yobuddy
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Jeremy Corbett

    Jeremy Corbett New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Balance:
    167Coins
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, SCN6, Motion platform
    @yobuddy Thank you! I will let you know the results ASAP.
    Cheers
  19. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    3,952
    Occupation:
    Computer Technician
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon - USA
    Balance:
    37,019Coins
    Ratings:
    +4,089 / 11 / -0
    You ever get your rig up and running buddy?
  20. Mu-KwangKim

    Mu-KwangKim Run, Run, Run SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    South, Korea
    Balance:
    - 664Coins
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, AC motor, SCN5, SCN6, Joyrider, Motion platform, 4DOF, 6DOF
    @yobuddy

    I have the same problem.

    SCN's TBVST and Simtools 1.3 are located exactly in the center.

    In 2.2, the position is slightly out of place.
  21. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Messages:
    3,952
    Occupation:
    Computer Technician
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon - USA
    Balance:
    37,019Coins
    Ratings:
    +4,089 / 11 / -0
    Here is why buddy,
    I'm going to edit the SCN driver to equal the old version travel distance with v2.2.5.
    I have had to many emails about it.
    (I'll put this 'protected' v2.2 version as an optional download after v2.2.5 is posted)

    Take care,
    yobuddy