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Quest Virtual Link and Hand Tracking

Discussion in 'VR Headsets and Sim Gaming - Virtual Reality' started by noorbeast, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Oculus Link allows you to access Rift content and experiences from a PC and will be available from November 2019.

    The other exciting Quest news for sim fans is that in 2020 it will get hand tracking, which could be great for interactive cockpit VR:


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  2. Ads Master

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  3. Lol4

    Lol4 Member

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    It is great news. Trying to work out if there will be better visuals with a Quest (and announced upcoming optical link) to PC over the Rift CV1. It would seem that if a CV1 owner was thinking of upgrading (or adding another headset) to a Rift S for general VR and not just sims it could be better to go with the Quest to get the added bonus of using the headset un tethered in a bigger play space.

    Although that means that the Rift is capable of running much more detailed virtual reality scenes than the Quest — and for longer — its display has fewer pixels. The Rift’s dual-OLED panels are limited to 1,080 x 1,200 pixels per eye, working out to 2,160 x 1,080 resolution in total. In comparison, the Oculus Quest has twin OLED displays that are 1,600 x 1,440 each, or 3,200 x 1,440. That makes for sharper overall visuals, with a noticeably reduced screen-door effect on the Quest, but its in-game textures, shaders, and models are a far cry from the Rift’s PC-powered visuals.

    The Rift handles high-speed motion better than the Quest too, because while its displays are a lower resolution, they have a higher refresh rate. The Quest runs at 72Hz, while the Rift has a fixed 90Hz. That should make it more comfortable for the user too, helping to avoid the dreaded VR nausea.

    Source: (https://www.digitaltrends.com/virtual-reality/oculus-quest-vs-oculus-rift/)
  4. Lol4

    Lol4 Member

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    This is the current discussion on this topic if anyone wants to follow: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/d96a7o/oculus_link_tether_oculus_quest_to_pc_via_usbc/
  5. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I'm super excited about that too! I really think I'm going to be buying a Quest once the tether is available, I want that hand tracking! Now I'm worried I might regret having bought the Index, been quite content with it so far but I need reliable and universally compatible hand tracking. Oculus has got to make it an option to have hands emulate Touch across all games right? I sure hope so.
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    I am not sure that hand tracking will be across all games, as Carmac mentioned hand tracking and Touch tracking were not compatible. Nor is hand tracking capable of as many precise actions/interactions as Touch. So I suspect that could mean that hand tracking may need dev implementation, but time will tell.

    I do expect hand tracking would be perfect for cockpit based games.
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  7. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I just totally broke down and ordered a Quest. Got reminded that it's currently possible to wirelessly stream SteamVR content to Quest (with obvious compression and 50ms latency. Ouch) and that was enough for me to figure I can do some testing.

    I have three tests I need to make immediately I think. Aside from that I do have to worry about the tether not being as good as my favorite VR reviewer says and too heavy an impact on my DCS frame rate.

    • Can I deal with the loss of FOV and image quality going from Index to Quest?
    • Does the tracking work reliably enough with large heave movements and smaller movements on other DOF's in a fully enclosed 6DOF motion sim with interior lighting and a grid pattern?
    • Will the stereo "passthrough+" camera mode give me a viable way to operate cockpit controls?

    If it fails either of the first two tests it goes back. The third test I expect it will definitely pass and might not ultimately matter much anyway if the hand tracking is as good as it appears to be.

    The only real benefit of doing this now instead of waiting is that if the HMD fails my testing I can send it back and stop spending time planning how to enclose the sim etc.

    I'll be sure to report back with my results.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  8. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    I have a Quest arriving next week, but for dev work not simulation, for the latter I currently use the Pimax 5k+, as I can't get the Index in Australia and don't want to get into warranty issues by working around Valve's restrictions to import it. I don't believe the Quest is any sort of a match for an Index for sims, in terms of FOV, hz, clarity, audio or comfort.
  9. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Yes, it will be a downgrade. Just a matter of seeing how big the downgrade feels. I had been thinking that for my sim-cockpit hand tracking plans the most effective method would be hands tracked by the HMD, but I once again tested my Leap Motion and found is still far more trouble than it is worth. The hand tracking and "passthrough+" are my main reasons for trying the Quest, but there are other fringe benefits as well. I'd say there is a fairly high chance I'll be returning the Quest but it might surprise me.

    The other major factor I'm considering is that I'd like to eliminate the need for motion compensation, but I insist on large heave travel. That means no lighthouse since they won't put up with being moved. =( My two top HMD choices are Index and Pimax 5k+ (or upcoming 8K+) but both require lighthouse tracking so I will still have to use motion compensation and sacrifice vibration transducers. I need to do a test and see how the Knuckles handle the transducers once mounted properly. They seem to track much better than the other devices in general. I'll try to do that tonight.
  10. Lol4

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    Had the Quest for 5 days now. My current setup is is Rift CV1, GTX1080 with a 3dof rig for reference. The clarity is definitely better than CV1 but the 72Hz takes a little getting used to. Side loaded ALVR (tried Virtual Desktop but ALVR seemed to work better). Total latency avg of 69ms being 2 meters through a wall from newish router on 5GHz band. With the settings (see attached image) it is pretty impressive through Steam VR. It is very useable in most games that work using ALVR. Revive testing so far with not great results. The controllers are a bit off angle wise and buttons for menus do not always work. Probably need to spend some more time with button mapping in ALVR.

    Tested PC2 with it last night and was actually pretty good with rig movement and bass traducers going on rig. I would say about 85 -90% as good as the CV1. I was impressed that the inside out tracking handled the rig movement really well and while not perfect is not that far off the current 3 sensor off rig setup currently. Tried Xplane 11 but got blue screen of death.

    Have ordered 3m USB 3 cables from Amazon UK to test link functionality when released as the official 5m oculus may be a few months behind in being released.

    I would say it is well worth getting if you currently have a CV1 and like to tinker and want better clarity. Assuming the link cable works out well it will hopefully be a pretty cheap upgrade from CV1 if you can tolerate the lower refresh rate.


    image.png
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  11. Anthony Morris

    Anthony Morris Member

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    Write me when its knuckle tracking with poli touch and feed back :popcorn

    Untill then i'll stick with my fantastic vive pro which has no boundaries, issue's or screen door. See you all on 'assetto corsa' at full graphics and 200% super sample with the worlds best kitted dofreality p3
    I thank you :cheers
  12. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    My Quest comes tomorrow. I will test and decide whether to keep it or return it. I'm not sure if my expectations are low and I'm hoping to be surprised, or if they are high and I'm expecting to be disappointed. I'm probably capitulating between the two.

    There has been some VERY optimistic speculation that the Quest could potentially run at 90 hz when it is tethered. Ben Lang had basically no complaints about the display when it was on the link so hopefully it's quite good.

    https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-lin...like-a-native-pc-vr-headset-oculus-connect-6/
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  13. Anthony Morris

    Anthony Morris Member

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    What are you comparing this too
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My understanding is that during the recent Oculus Connect Carmack confirmed it was possible for Quest to do 90hz, but to do so would require re-certification by Oculus, and the latter was unlikely.
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  15. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    I'm currently using Index. I know of course that Index is a much higher end setup by far, but I'm going to check and see how much the downgrade bothers me because I think I may want to go to inside out tracking and would love to have the hand tracking capability.

    Also it would be nice to play my Oculus exclusive games without ReVive, and the standalone fuctionality of Quest might be fun to play with some.

    So it' just a matter of how much the inferior display and smaller FOV bother me when I play with the Quest, and also how well the positional tracking on Quest works when I enclose my cockpit.. for now with cardboard probably just to test. I will put a grid or something on the cardboard and make sure it is lit well enough.
  16. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    OK, here we go! I got in my first test session with the Quest.

    The Quest HMD is really good, I was impressed. As expected it's a significant downgrade from my Index, but if I decide I absolutely need the Quest features (base station free tracking, hand tracking, passthrough plus) I could deal with the downgrade. Looking at up close objects the Quest looked great overall, but of course it does have that bit of OLED pentile pixel SDE going on. That defintely didn't bother me and I felt like text was just as readable on Quest as Index. I didn't do anything where I had much to look at from a distance, but I think that's where he difference in displays will really come into play. The farther the object is, the more apparent the display difference. My SteamVR Home is the inside of an Elite Dangerous space station and it looks gorgeous as far as the eye can see on Index.

    Unfortunately it looks like this might be the ONLY test I get to do. The second time I plugged in the Quest charger it felt kinda rough and now it won't charge. google search indicates this is a problem others are having as well.

    Honestly I wish I could afford to keep it, but as the great Jayne Cobb once said; "If wishes were horses we'd all be eating steak!". Seriously though, If I had the money I'd keep the Quest around for playing my Oculus exclusive games instead of having to use Revive. It is DAMNED impressive how good it looks running on that mobile hardware!

    • Tracking worked great. Not perfect but very acceptable IMO
    • Comfort was OK. The face foam appears to be a very nice high quality and probably durable material but it kinda felt like 1200 grit sandpaper against my face.
    • FOV was a very obvious and painful loss. Horizontal FOV wasn't that bad if I squished it up against my face to "simulate" a thinner VRCovers face foam. Definitely a significant difference but not earth shattering. Vertical FOV felt like a huge loss even with the HMD clamped on tight. This was the biggest difference between Vive FOV and CV1 FOV as well.
    • SDE/Resolution looked very good. Probably halfway between CV1 and Index or a little better. Things up close looked great, reading text was worlds better than CV1/OG Vive.
    • Standalone capabilities were impressive. It was also super, super nice to not have a wire to worry about, I can't wait to cut the cord on VR!
    • Passthrough Plus looked like it will work for me in the way I hoped. I'm pretty confident hand tracking would too.
    I think that if I stopped using the Index after a while I'd forget about the downgrade, but putting the Index back on after testing Quest seemed like a pretty big difference. In a way the Index image clarity is a disadvantage in DCS. You can much more clearly see the lack of detail on buildings and such! No joke, it's a thing!

    I'd really love to take this thing to a huge open room like a Gymnasium and try playing Robo Recall on it to see how it works. It would be awesome to play that game without constantly worrying about where the walls are and the cord getting in your way. Don't know how the tracking would fare though.
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  17. Trip Rodriguez

    Trip Rodriguez VR Pilot

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    Update: I didn't think I had anything compatible, but then suddenly remembered that the Knuckles chargers are USB-C so..with some trepidation concerning the possibility of damaging the charging cable I plugged it into the Quest. It worked! Apparently the issue is with the charger, not the HMD. That means I'll get to do further testing. =)
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  18. Zeroselect

    Zeroselect New Member Gold Contributor

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    I have had the Quest for the last 3 weeks (my first real VR) and I am so impressed on its ability through a mobile processor. Can't wait on Link.

    Trip, have you tried Super Sampling on the Quest?

    Also looks like someone is already working on 90hz.

  19. Zeroselect

    Zeroselect New Member Gold Contributor

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    Oculus Link is Out Now!

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  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Already ordered my interim cable, until the official Link cable is released.