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PT-Actuators 3DOF system?

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by LukeBrown, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    Thanks for the input dudes ... :thumbs

    TR160 Rig - So at the front right behind the 2 x PTa's is the Wheel Deck + Accuforce Wheel, then underneath and in front of those PTa's is the Steel Pedal Deck + Fanatec V3 CSP's.

    Near to the rear is the TR Rally seat which is extremely light weight. Myself @ 114kg is placed almost to the middle from Rear to Front.

    My second option is to remove the 4020 gearbox structure mount (can modify that later) and bolt the PTa's behind the Wheel Deck instead of in Front.

    This brings the forward PTa positions rearwards nearly 300mm, so a tighter triangle, which I assume is a better weight distribution. However the wheel & pedal decks are then in front of the PTa's but I guess that is still okay ?

    Which do you guys feel is the most optimal or efficient option ? Probably the second ? Any other thoughts ideas, your input is really appreciated ! o_O
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    I think it best to find the center of mass for the upper platform, with you and peripherals included, then work out the largest equilateral triangle that is feasible given the contruction of the rig: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...-of-gravity-to-balance-a-motion-simulator.55/

    Failing that it may be wise to presume a rear weight bias and have 2 actuators at the back.
  3. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    Yeah for certain, so I have a good balance tighter triangle now with 680mm width front and 860mm sides. This takes most weight to front and away from single rear actuator ... waddyareckon ?
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    So are you saying the actual center of mass is to the front of center of that triangle?
  5. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    The wheel & pedals are just in front of where the 2 x PTa's are and my body weight is the centre.

    I figured my body weight is the heaviest factor and the frame front is outside the triangle. Seems the best compromise with where I can physically attach the PTactuators without making the triangle sides too long, which I thought they would be at 1200mm long, if I attach them in front of the wheel deck posts.

    I am uncertain if its ok to have any weight forward of the 2 front PTa's ? I have seen a 3 actuator setup somewhere that looked similar using faster actuators, 500mm/sec MDCS I think they were. And I think his pedal deck was similarly placed in front with the 2 Front actuators just behind the wheel deck. I am not certain though.
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Pedals forward of the actuators are not the end of the world.

    You should actually measure not 'figure' where the center of mass will be, if you have not already done so. You will need to consider both the performance implication and also stability, as mass and momentum of the seat side to side is also a consideration.
  7. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    Sorry I should have been clearer ... I measured the triangle and in relation to the actual center, my body is just at but slightly to the rear and the weight of the wheel + deck + posts is at the actual front as I found a way to mount the front 2 actuators to those posts either side of the wheel deck.
  8. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    This vid shows pretty much exactly where my PTa's are being mounted.



    Today I spoke to Shao at PT Actuators and he assured me this is the optimal & best placement for a 3 Actuator setup based on experience from his company. He dispelled any concerns I had based on my weight and not being placed exactly dead centre front to rear. Will test it all and report back, also add a Youtube vid or 2 at some point. Cheers.
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  9. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    Been up & running for few days now ... Lots of tweaking, testing and trying out sims ... rF2, AMS2, pCars2 and Dirt Rally 2.0 so far.

    rF2 feels especially great but I have spent the most amount of time tweaking it and the simulated traction loss blew me away as it feels so immersive in VR, did not expect that at all !

    I have come from over 4 years motion on the NLR v3 2dof seat mover which imho is a superb system. This PT Actuator setup is sooo different in many ways and in a very good way ... very surprised at the speed, strength and granular surface detail I can feel and every little bump can be felt. I really feel like I am in a properly sprung car chassis.

    Wow ! Just incredible ... love it ! :D
    So glad I went with the 2 Front 1 Rear configuration as the balance feels great and Shao was right, these PT a's are plenty strong enough, handling the 200kg weight total of me & the TR160 rig with total ease.

    I am using the SRS app with Thanos controller - perfect match - excellent products that really make the PTa's shine.

    Currently away from home working but plan to eventually get some vids up on Youtube. There are only a couple of vids showing the 2 Front + 1 Rear actuator setups and I really believe this is the superior configuration, at least for me anyway. ;)
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  10. atomic garden

    atomic garden New Member

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    Hello everyone,
    I was about to order all the materials for an sfx-100 system to mount to my sim-lab tr1 rig

    However after reading this thread I am thinking it might be worth it to save some time and work and get PT actuators instead.
    The PT seems to be about 2x more expensive than the sfx, which is a lot better than the D-box prices I was looking at originally.

    Anyone here who can compare the 2 systems for use in iracing with GT3/GTE or similar cars? Is the PT worth 2x the price in performance alone? does it give a much better experience?

    thx for any input!
  11. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    I cannot compare iRacing as never bought it. However in terms of value only I would say if you have time & willing to learn the SFX route diy is a good one. And you only need 3 x Actuators for optimal effect, so save even more. 4 actuators if you want TL & Surge (can do TL with 3 though).

    SFX have 100mm stroke or range, PT's are 150mm or 6 inch. DBox typically 1.5 or 3 inch unless you sell a kidney and buy the 6 inch. Not sure on SFX speed but PT's are 250mm/sec or the new Scorpion PT's are 500mm/sec.

    Owners of SFX would have more to say. For me personally, my time is more valuable for earning $ so purchase of a PT system was a no-brainer. Fast, durable & very high build quality plus the black ones look dope !

    I would add if you go the SFX route get the Thanos controller which also is a pro quality excellent piece of hardware that he is constantly firmware updating & refining and enables you to use SRS app, update 2.6 released today fully PT compatible. Or you can use SimTools, I have both but for ease prefer SRS. Good Luck in your decision.
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  12. mark_44

    mark_44 New Member

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    Hi,

    I've been following this thread for a while now. Some very useful info and links in here.

    Having always lusted after a motion racing SIM, it seemed the only way it was going to happen was to go the SFX-100 route. Having priced everything up (inc 3d printer) and it was looking at nearly £2000 plus a considerable amount of time. When the PT-actuator offer came out ahead of the Scorpion release - it seemed like the push I needed to avoid a lot of potential build-learn frustration. I've recently taken delivery or 3 x 100mm actuator MegaMonster kit. PT's Shao and Echo have been helpful and professional throughout the process. The kit arrived well packaged in a solid wooden box with all the components present and correct.

    I came to the conclusion that the 3 x actuator 3DoF setup seems to make more sense to provide 3-axis movement. I have yet to build up the P1-x chassis, but once I've established the CoG - 2 actuators on the wheel uprights and one at the back is my current preferred configuration to try and get some decent width and a reasonable range of movement considering the 100mm stroke.

    Having just watched some of the Scorpion review on Sim racing garage, I'm happy it was a good call as the improvements in the new version seem largely based around beefing up the actuator mechanism. While I get the extra load capacity, what I'm trying to get my head around is the doubling of acceleration from 250mm/s to 500mm/s using what would appear to be the same motors and power rating, especially when the screw grooves seem to have the same pitch ?? Is that correct?

    Anyway, very glad to have discovered this community - I'm sure I will be asking many questions in the near future as well as sharing any useful discoveries.
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  13. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Going by what's stated in the video, same motor- same speed (250mm/sec).
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  14. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    250mm/s fits good these "short" stroke actuators, especially for racing where road feel vibration is present.

    Using 500mm/s speed actuators, just makes it too fast sometimes, and too realistic in crashes, literally can eject the driver from its seat if no seatbelt is used :p

    The 500mm/s speed actuators make sense to be used for longer stroke actuators, like for 400mm or 500mm long ones for Stewart type 6dof...
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  15. mark_44

    mark_44 New Member

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    With the 150mm travel, I assumed the Actuators tested by Barry on SRG were the Scorpion "super" which list 500mm/s. But the fact he didn't notice a difference and the electrical spec is the same makes me think they are Scorpion "Experience" but with 150mm travel - not 100mm as per website. Just trying to establish the differences. Should probably watch the full review!

    Personally wouldn't be averse to a more realistic experience that required seat belts (can it be TOO fast?), but this SIM stuff is already proving to be a very expensive hobby so a bit of moderation is required ;-)

    I'm building for VR circuit racing, so I think what I have will suffice. Will undoubtedly be a lot more imersive than a static build!
  16. atomic garden

    atomic garden New Member

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    There is good info in this thread, its why I started considering the PT instead of building SFX.
    I am also going for a 3 actuator setup on a Sim-Lab tr1

    Can I ask how much you paid for the 100mm PT actuators and are they still available?
    I don't believe I need 150mm for iracing road cars.

    I have also been looking at this, I know its a little bit against the SFX philosophy but is an easy sfx solution:
    https://eracing-lab.com/collections/diy-projects/products/diy-mega.

    I would like to order beginning of next month so if there are any more opinions on the best option I would love to hear them.
  17. mark_44

    mark_44 New Member

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    Have PM'ed.

    Sure don't get to send many characters :)
  18. atomic garden

    atomic garden New Member

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    ty! will inquire with PT soon.
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