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PT-Actuators 3DOF system?

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by LukeBrown, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. Globespy

    Globespy Member Gold Contributor

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    @Blanes
    Hey Mark, that's good news!
    Happy to help you when you have it setup on your rig - did you also get your Trakracer?
  2. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    Nah bit of delay as the shipment is not expected until 15th July, supposed to have arrived 20th June but the covid crap has held it up apparently

    Are you rockin' & rollin' yet ?
  3. Globespy

    Globespy Member Gold Contributor

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    Actually rockin' and rollin' a little too much. Almost had to change my shorts as in VR I thought for sure my rig was gonna flip!
    Of course it was no-where close, but still the settings were way too violent.
    Been getting some help from guys on the discord channel, really helping.

    There's a learning curve for sure and the # of actuators changes how the individual settings are made so it's not quite a 1 size fits all.
    But fun as hell, when you don't think 350lb+ of metal framing and servo motors is gonna topple on ya! :)
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  4. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    LoL Awesome mate ! I am really looking forward to getting up to speed too... Sounds like you are having outrageous fun even while getting to grips with it all !

    Delivery via DHL is slated for Thurs 1st July... then 2 more weeks til my TR160 arrives... that will be a painful wait :think
  5. Globespy

    Globespy Member Gold Contributor

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    Posting my settings with PT Mega Monster 3x150mm Actuators mounted in tripod format - 1 actuator in the front center of my P1 chassis, the other 2 actuators on each side of my racing seat, as far back as possible on each side piece of extrusion.

    These are for iRacing after playing around with things for a bit over a month now with lots of helpful advice from many other users.

    It should be noted that SFX1000 (100mm) actuator settings may not feel ideal on these PT units - ZeroNilZero (Tim) has been extremely helpful in offering ideas and settings, but ultimately they created a very violently moving rig despite efforts to mitigate. Nonetheless, learned a lot throughout this process and Tim really knows his stuff when it comes to understanding how all the effects fit together.
    But there is no one size fits all, even if you had the same equipment as everyone as different goals for what they want to feel.
    Driving mostly GT/GTLM and formula cars, my goals were to have a very 'tight' and 'informative' motion system, offering motion cues based on iRacing's laser scanned track data that added more useful information to my driving experience, instead of feeling like I was driving a John Deere tractor over a rocky beach.
    Nothing exaggerated or distracting, which for me is what I wanted as a tool that helped me hone my driving skills rather than create a bouncy castle experience that is fun, but wasn't helping me become a faster driver.

    I played with a range of DOF values and filters, then looked at tuning center values to increase/decrease intensity of motion cues.

    The best piece of advice I've had is to only have one DOF at a time and drive the car until you feel it's right, adjusting values and filters and Tuning Center then turn that one off and try out another. I would keep all Tuning Center values to 9 and -9 to start, then go down as you feel is needed after you have everything feeling natural to you.

    Do this until you feel all the values feel right to you, then try running roll, pitch and heave together and see how they all feel together. Then try surge, sway and TL if you want to simulate TL (I didn't find any value in trying to simulate this without an actual TL system so turned TL off).

    With only 3 actuators, I found that too much sway can really create a very odd experience that caused me to make more mistakes as I was getting motion cues that suggested the car was 'drifting' more than it actually was, and caused me to make larger correction inputs than was needed.|

    Pitch is also something that can feel very odd with too much value, for me it created a 'rocking horse' sensation when going through very fast sections of track with larger undulations that just felt wrong. I might even go lower than the values I use currently - maybe try 18 or 15.

    Surge is cool, but too much is not very realistic if you don't have a dedicated surge platform. Too much and when you accelerate, it feels like you are engaging hyperdrive and the steering wheel moves away from you as if your arms are stretching. On braking you move forwards and up, which can be off-putting with too much values here too. This is a trial and error thing and ultimately I prefer to have this as a subtle cue until I add a surge platform.
    I race 100% in VR, so perhaps this is more accentuated than those driving on monitors so YMMV.

    Roll is a setting that you want to keep low - thanks to Mike Jeffries for this one. Much of the violent motion you will experience during a collision is related to roll, so be sparing on this.

    Another useful tip from Mike Jeffries was to use the 'Extra2-Heave-1' parameter instead of 'Heave' as the former does NOT have gravity, unlike 'Heave'. There's a big difference between the two and when I first tried using just 'Heave', it was not a nice feeling when you felt like the car was sinking into the track surface. Recommend you don't use 'Heave' and instead use 'Extra2-Heave-1'.


    But these will only serve as a guide, everyone wants different things from their motion rig, so ultimately you will end up tweaking things to your liking.
    Good luck!
    Attached Images of filter values (all filter values the same for each axis within that DOF column) can be easily linked to the DOF #:
    upload_2020-7-13_12-47-47.png

    upload_2020-7-13_12-48-18.png

    upload_2020-7-13_12-48-50.png

    upload_2020-7-13_12-50-1.png

    upload_2020-7-13_12-50-26.png

    upload_2020-7-13_12-51-6.png

    upload_2020-7-13_12-51-29.png

    upload_2020-7-13_12-52-13.png
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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  6. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    @Globespy - Wow, that is awesome mate ! So much really helpful info in your post ... I received my PT Monster kit but still waiting on my Trakracer TR160, latest is that the shipment lands around 15th and has to pass customs and then get sorted and sent out in the days following.

    The PT actuators look really beefy, very impressive and the black powder coating rocks ! :D

    Shao mounted the servo drives in the control housing for me ... btw that is very nicely made and glad I got it. All I am missing is an Australian power plug as he didn't have any but I can pick one up easy.

    Do I need a dedicated surge control just for the servo and controller ?

    IMG_20200630_132021640.jpg 15946844805796291807341224505139.jpg

    Attached Files:

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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  7. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    @Thanos - I guess your Agree is to my question about a dedicated Surge control board. My plan is to put one inside the control housing and also mount your (Thanos) Control module in there too ! ;)
  8. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, Motion platform, 4DOF, 6DOF
    The AMC controller is powered by USB... no need surge control for it.

    But you should get a good power strip with surge control and if possible with emi filter included... there is lots of discussions on my Discord about it with suggestions on related equipment.

    Thanks
    Thanos
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  9. Globespy

    Globespy Member Gold Contributor

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    I think I might have some EMI issues with my Simucube since adding motion.
    I've had the odd micro stutter/momentary loss of FFB in my wheel, despite running the same dedicated grounding solution I have used for years prior to adding the PT motion setup.
    I am housing both my Simucube (it's in it's own micro ATX case) and the AASD15A motor drivers in a networking enclosure (like the one PT sells). I have a EMI/RFI surge protector, with the Simucube ground plugged in.
    I carefully followed all of the instructions, mainly the SRG review, using the small screws on the units to attach ground wires for the actuators.

    Could I be having EMI just with the Simcube box and the servo drivers in the same enclosure?
    Is there any simply way to check if it is a grounding issue?
    Thanks.
  10. Blanes

    Blanes Member

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    Does not sound too good, hope you find a solution. Did Shao have any ideas what could be causing it ? Hit him up on whatsapp as he replies there within a day.
  11. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if it will help you, but I use to have all sorts of USB issues until I installed a 4 controller USB3 card into my computer. Have not had a issue since. Also try and ensure you keep some distance were possible between Power and Data lines.
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  12. Globespy

    Globespy Member Gold Contributor

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    New Set of Values for iRacing - this feels better to me, feedback is lively but informative.
    Tested on V8 Supercars, GT3, GTE, GT1, Riley Proto.
    Filter values are the same for each DOF - I just showed one from each - so Roll, Pitch, Extra-Heave-1, Surge and Sway.
    Of course it's all subjective but thought I'd share anyway.

    Attached Files:

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  13. Zippo246

    Zippo246 Member

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    Hi Seat, when you mention power and data, are you referring to the two cables that go to the actuators (ie be really deliberate about how they are laid on the floor (in my case)) or just generally. If the former, I will attempt to make them lay over each other adjacently.
  14. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Yes, be deliberate in how you lay out the cables if there is a issue, as the motors push back big EMFs when they change direction hard and this can be radiated by the power cables and then possibly picked up by any closely coupled control/data lines. You could even run things in steel conduit or use shielded power cables if you need to get serious. It often can just come down to how everything is shielded, or earthed with some installations having no issues and others numerous.
  15. Globespy

    Globespy Member Gold Contributor

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    I think if you plan to have neat cable routing then it will be tough to avoid having power/data wires not running parallel to each other, which is why you should focus on a good grounding strategy and where possible have USB cable's that have good shielding (ferrite cores won't hurt).

    I found a thread on here somewhere that helped tremendously with grounding my entire system.
    The idea is that you have a centrally mounted termination panel (see what I used in the links below), with ground wires that are attached to each actuator, DD wheel motor (if you have one), pedal housing, and entire rig (I use SimLabs P1 extrusion cockit) all terminating at the panel.
    Then from the termination panel you would have 1 ground connection going directly to a wired ground plug which is plugged directly into your wall outlet.
    I mounted the termination panel near the front of my rig, and have all ground wires coming from the actuators - just remove one of the top bolts where there is exposed unpainted/powder coated metal and connect a run of ground wire with crimp secure spade terminals to be screwed snuggly under the screws on the termination panel.
    This has resolved all EMI gremlins for me.



  16. Globespy

    Globespy Member Gold Contributor

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    I have made a few slight tweaks to you settings, thought I would share - I removed filters from some DOF.
    Capture.PNG Capture2.PNG Extra1-Heave-Filter.PNG RollFilter.PNG SwayFilter.PNG TuningCenter.PNG
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  17. Zippo246

    Zippo246 Member

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    Hi Globe, Is Extra2-Heave-1 a function of the plugin, or was it a setting you made? If the latter, can you advise how please? I'm hoping to try/use this in DCS_Exp for KA-50 and Harrier, but my only options are OpenData1, 2 and 3 for Extra1,2 and 3 respectively, and nil data is coming through from the sim.
    Thanks
  18. Globespy

    Globespy Member Gold Contributor

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    This DOF was created for iRacing by the plugin developer as the regular 'heave' has gravity and at least in VR was very odd going up hills where I could feel my virtual body sinking into the ground.
  19. Zippo246

    Zippo246 Member

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    Understood, thanks. I'm very green at this, and am putting my efforts into DCS. When setting up for helicopters and VTOL, the default offset (?) of 0.98 for gravity will always stop my actuators from starting in the neutral position. I'm hoping to experience something that is felt on lift off.
  20. Zippo246

    Zippo246 Member

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    @Thanos and @noorbeast , what does the captive feet/foot look like? Sounds like it is locked down onto a base, am I even close? I ask because my mind wanders towards a surge actuator in the future. Although I'm currently an infant with this stuff and am just crawling....