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Showroom Prosimu T1000 PRS200 3DOF

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by fsutton, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. fsutton

    fsutton Member Gold Contributor

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    Still dialing the settings in...

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  2. PetroVitallini

    PetroVitallini New Member Gold Contributor

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    Sweet!

    What stroke length is that? 100, 150 or 200 mm?
  3. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    Hi, I see you have a old GS4 seat - that should be a nice setup with the T1000 :thumbs.
  4. AussieSim

    AussieSim Member

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    I take it you have 3rd Traction Loss actuator underneath.

    Have you tried with less smoothing ?
  5. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    It always makes it hard to comment on settings from a video when a G-seat is involved :think. Your just not seeing what is actually being felt by the driver.
  6. fsutton

    fsutton Member Gold Contributor

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    I've been all over the place while still learning simtools in general. I've dialed the smoothing back down to 10% and it feels right for the traction loss. The one thing I'm missing is micro-bumps and road textures coming through the actuators. I had a conversation with JoeExtraKnow and if I understand correctly, the information to provide this feel is not translated into dof axis movement. If this is the case, it's a shortcoming of simtools and not my tuning. In fact, I turned off all other effects except for heave and tried to get the feeling of rumble strips to work, but it won't work. Not like I feel it coming through my accuforce wheel. I'm open to suggestions.
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    SimTools is capable of using all telemetry the game provides.

    It would help if you post pictures of all of your settings.

    But at a guess I suspect your Tuning Center values for heave are too high, on many games I use a value for heave that is often less than 1.
  8. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    This is not true. SimTool uses only vertical-g data for heave, which is OK indeed. But not feel as good for sim racing car as by other SWs, like Simxperience Commander 4 and D-box SW, which feed chassis vibration, ride heights too.
    I have both, and build on a same rig front and rear. I compared both side by side....

    ON tuning up, yes you can turn up the heave level, but you cannot tune up some thing is not there. Such tuning usually referes to DRC, or Dynamic Range Compression. IMHO, racing car sim is different from flight sim. The motion SW does need to be more specifically cared......for racing cars.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  9. fsutton

    fsutton Member Gold Contributor

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    Joe are you saying that what we're missing is the feel that a direct drive provides when say going over rumble strips as well as the micro bumps that I get through the wheel, but not the actuators? If so, I agree. I don't get the very fine details. If that's not what you are saying, then I'm confused.
  10. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    Sadly, yes. I got lots of bumps feel on apex, and road texture....with Simx Commander 4 SW.
  11. fsutton

    fsutton Member Gold Contributor

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    Well, noorbeast keeps suggesting "tuning". I've done that using his latest recommendations and I'm not getting the fine details. Should be an easy thing to incorporate for someone skilled with writing plugins. I'm available to test :) I'd gladly hit the donate button as well.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  12. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    I don't see a quick solution. As yobuddy suggested, you may try to add GameVibe to get a "better" feel.
  13. fsutton

    fsutton Member Gold Contributor

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    Well yeah, one can do that of course. I'd prefer to see the Prosimu product be the best that if can be performance wise. I'd like to think that Patrick would get involved if the hardware is capable (I believe it is) and resolve it for his customers. That's my preference anyway.
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    ON tuning up, yes you can turn up the heave level, but you cannot tune up some thing is not there. Such tuning usually referes to DRC, or Dynamic Range Compression. IMHO, racing car sim is different from flight sim. The motion SW does need to be more specifically cared......for racing cars.[/QUOTE]
    SimTools can use heave data to drive a dedicated heave axis, or to simulate heave on sims that do not have a dedicated sim axis, it does so by mixing heave data on the fly to the pitch axis.

    I would certainly appreciate commercial manufacturers resolving issues for customers who have paid for a product.

    I suggest tuning because that is the best way to get the most out of your rig, as the plugin is not the issue. iRacing is better than most games when it comes to providing heave telemetry, as it is one of the few games that respects the fact that we stick to the earth (although we rotate with approximately 1'000 - 1'600 km/h!) So they include gravity into their model and output it in the telemetry data: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/marketplace/iracing-plugin.28/update?update=280
  15. fsutton

    fsutton Member Gold Contributor

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    100mm
  16. fsutton

    fsutton Member Gold Contributor

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    Alright, I’ll talk to Patrick and see if this something tht he can resolve with software. At this point I can’t resolve it using the suggested tuning by steps posted here. I’m curious though, is the advice that JoeExtraKnow is suggesting with the additional software programming incorrect and are you absolutely sure that this is a tuning issue? What if Patrick concludes it’s a software issue as well? Am I just out of luck at that point ?

    SimTools can use heave data to drive a dedicated heave axis, or to simulate heave on sims that do not have a dedicated sim axis, it does so by mixing heave data on the fly to the pitch axis.


    I would certainly appreciate commercial manufacturers resolving issues for customers who have paid for a product.


    I suggest tuning because that is the best way to get the most out of your rig, as the plugin is not the issue. iRacing is better than most games when it comes to providing heave telemetry, as it is one of the few games that respects the fact that we stick to the earth (although we rotate with approximately 1'000 - 1'600 km/h!) So they include gravity into their model and output it in the telemetry data: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/marketplace/iracing-plugin.28/update?update=280[/QUOTE]
    SimTools can use heave data to drive a dedicated heave axis, or to simulate heave on sims that do not have a dedicated sim axis, it does so by mixing heave data on the fly to the pitch axis.


    I would certainly appreciate commercial manufacturers resolving issues for customers who have paid for a product.


    I suggest tuning because that is the best way to get the most out of your rig, as the plugin is not the issue. iRacing is better than most games when it comes to providing heave telemetry, as it is one of the few games that respects the fact that we stick to the earth (although we rotate with approximately 1'000 - 1'600 km/h!) So they include gravity into their model and output it in the telemetry data: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/marketplace/iracing-plugin.28/update?update=280[/QUOTE]
  17. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    This is a complex subject. IMO I think the raw heave data that Simtools extracts from the Game is more then adequate. Its what happens to it after that which defines how much dynamic range/detail can be conveyed to the driver. Eg - Is the interface data from Simtools to the T1000 servo controller just 8 data bits? Good to see you have gone back to the manufacture for comment. Just for a counter point - video below of my actuators running on a smooth track with just heave activated showing detail over the tracks ripple strips - Car GT86. The detail is so fine that you can hear/feel it more then you can see it - My system uses DC motors and a 1280 controller that uses 16 bit data input - so maybe not the same as your T1000, but the video does show that the detail is there. Also recommend you open the simtools game engine and have a look at Output Testing/ Virtual axis when a game is running - lots of detail to be seen in heave etc for a properly setup system.

    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  18. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    This issue has been discussed with yobuddy before.
    It is hard to use a video to demonstrate this. You do need to have two SW systems setup and compare side by side then you will notice right away.

    Here is summary from last discussion with yobuddy. The SimTool simulates z-direction movement (heave) by using game vertical-g data only. Thus, it gives one a instant vertical impact feel. For flight sim this probably good enough. Question would be is this good enough for racing car sim?

    Here is vertical-g data I took from rFactor 2 while I was driving a Corvette GT2 at Silverstone for couple laps:

    SimTool use that for heave.

    Now, lets look at this car Chases movement data: front and rear ride heights:

    Now you can see how much bumps and details and vibrations SimTool missed?

    yobuddy suggested one may update the games' plugins to include two extra axises for these. I think it is good idea, just like one for the TL. rF2-Vertical-g-Capture.PNG rF2-RideHeightCapture.PNG

    thanks

    Joe
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  19. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    You can also get some of this independent front/back chassis motion data from pitch and roll, but I will step back and let you guys sort this one out as - don't own a Prosimu, quite happy with my sim:).
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  20. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    How do the SimXperience SW and D-Box SW use those chassis movement data and how to mix....etc. I don't know. I would guess in a same fashion of mixing SimVibe or GameVibe data...(?)