1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

Projekt Flugsimulator

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by tobi, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. tobi

    tobi New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Heilbronn
    Balance:
    341Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    thanks guys!

    So the next step will be getting the electronics ready.
    I had a look at thanos Interface and the RN-VN2 DualMotor-Cards.
    In case that the interface cards supports 4 wipers i could use 2 MotorCards like: http://www.shop.robotikhardware.de/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=65&products_id=112

    Because my electronic-knowledge is more than poor i need your help :oops:


    regards,
    tobi
  2. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Hi Tobi,

    Its not necessary to use two RNVN2 motor controllers! Only one is enough for your 2DOF platform. Unless you want to have one for spare in case you want more DOF later :wink: In case you wonder, I ordered them ready to use (not kit).


    PS, I can't help you with the order, another member of the forum ordered it for me cause I don't speak German... :oops:

    Regards, Thanos
  3. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Germany - Frankfurt/M
    Balance:
    418Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    I wouldnt connect 4 wiper motors on a single RNVN2.
  4. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Ok

    Then he should use two RNVN2 motor controllers that their inputs are connected to the same connector on my AVR motion controller (the first one) ;-)

    Then each pair of wiper motors will produce the same motion I guess! :mukkies:

    Regards, Thanos
  5. tobi

    tobi New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Heilbronn
    Balance:
    341Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I´ll be back ( :D ) when i´ve finished the first motor-tower.

    Regards,
    Tobi
  6. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Germany - Frankfurt/M
    Balance:
    418Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    Hasta la vista ;D
  7. tobi

    tobi New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Heilbronn
    Balance:
    341Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Bin gerade am Masseproblem beheben, da der Motor über´s Gehäuse Masse bezieht :(

    Habe mir diese Anleitung vom Roboternetz angeschaut, mein Motor ist etwas abweichend.
    Den Massepunkt hab ich gefunden, nur stellt sich mir eine Frage.
    Während bei der Anleitung das Massekabel einfach abgetrennt wird und über ein anderes Kabel aus dem
    Gehäuse geführt wird, bin ich mir nicht ganz sicher, ob bei meinem unter der Platine irgendwelche andere Kabel an den Massepunkt gehen.

    Ich hab bis jetzt mal diese Öse, die leitet, einfach ausgebohrt wie auf dem Photo hoffentlich einigermaßen zu erkennen. (meine Cam packt so was wohl nicht)
    Somit sollte vom Gehäuse nichts mehr kommen. Einfachste Lösung wäre doch eigentlich, einfach das Massekabel an dem bestehenden Draht
    anzulöten und dann rauszuführen.. Somit wäre dann wohl für beide Fälle vorgesorgt: Wenn nichts weiter an das Kabel von unter der Platine dran ist und
    auch falls etwas was man nicht sehen kann noch von unten dran geht...

    Hmm, hab ich mir die Frage jetzt selbst beantwortet oder wie :) ??
    Was meinen die Wischerprofis?

    Grüße
    Tobi
    Tobi

    Attached Files:

  8. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Germany - Frankfurt/M
    Balance:
    418Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    Ob es noch einen weiteren Massepunkt gibt, lässt sich schnell testen. Entweder mit nem Multimeter auf Durchgang prüfen, oder eben alles wieder zusammenbauen, ne 12 Stromquelle an das Stromkabel, und die Masse ans Gehäuse. Wenn der Motor zuckt, dann ist noch wo anders was. Aber das halte ich für unwarscheinlich.

    Schnapp dir mal ne gscheite Kamera, oder leih dir eine, und mach mal ein paar Scharfe Fotos. Ich will davon ne Beschreibung bzw ein Tutorial für genau diesen Motor in unserer FAQ sehen ;)

    Also Fotos davon, wie du jede einzelne Schraube aus dem Gehäuse schraubst, wären übertrieben. Aber das wesentliche sollte schon sichtbar und klar erkenntlich markiert, und beschrieben sein.

    Gruss
    Christian
  9. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Hi Tobi,

    My wiper motors have 2 speeds! I didn't use the ground connection but the connections of the two speeds input to move the motor. This translates to a combined speed from powering both coils of the motor that gives better torque than using only one of the motors coil!

    Here explains this:

    http://www.scary-terry.com/wipmtr/wipmtr2.htm

    Regards, Thanos
  10. tobi

    tobi New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Heilbronn
    Balance:
    341Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    great, thanks for the link.

    I tried it this morning by myself, and: SUCCESS :) :) :)

    It has low and high speed-gear. I fixed the ground-problem like in the photo and
    brazed a cable on the coppercable. Then isolated the whole cable and tried it.
    And yes sir, the motor works!!! :D

    @thanos
    Thanks for the link.
    Hmm, you use the lower and higher gear for about 100 rpm ?
    Do you think that this is necessary for my project with 4 wipers?
    OK, faster movements i think so..

    regards,
    Tobi
  11. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Germany - Frankfurt/M
    Balance:
    418Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    @Tobi

    Connect it like Thanos mentioned. You'll get more torque!

    Es geht nicht unbedingt darum, das die Motoren dann schneller drehen, sondern dass sie ein höheres Drehmoment haben, wenn beide Motorspulen gleichzeitig angesprochen werden, anstatt immer nur eine von beiden.

    Das ist ein Scherz, oder? Du bekommst ne Möglichkeit gennant, mehr Power aus den sowiso schon recht schwachen Motoren (Im Verhältnis zur Power, die benötigt wird) zu bekommen, und du wilst lieber bei der schwächeren Anschlussbelegung bleiben? Bedenke, dass umso zahlreicher die Motoren sind umso langsamer werden sie heiß im Dauerbetrieb. Also,mache es so wie Thanos es vorschlägt. Plus und Minus gibt es sozusagen nicht mehr, da die Pole bei Richtungsumkehr wechseln. Also schließe sie mit Plus und Minus an den Anschluss für schnell und langsam an, und für rückwärts, einfach die Kabel tauschen.
    Auf diese Weise braucht man auch nicht mehr das Massekabel herauszuführen.

    Gruss
    Christian
  12. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Hi Tobi,

    Can you make a photo-guide of what you have done to isolate the ground from the case? I can't figure out from your photo as its a little blur... :lupe:

    I didn't had any real ground issues with my motors as each motor mounting is isolated from the PVC pipes of the joyrider! But this info, on how to convert the wiper motors ground, is still handy in many cases. :les:

    Sidenote: Now that I mentioned the way I connected the coils on my wiper motors I suspect that this is the reason for their high-pitched noise and jumpy behavior on the 24Khz PWM... I'll take a closer look of that and try connecting only one coil at a time, to see if there is any difference...!

    Regards, Thanos
  13. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Germany - Frankfurt/M
    Balance:
    418Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    Just want to add, that it is neccessary in any case, to cut the GND connection to the shell. No matter which connection type will be used. Thanos pvc construction is an exeption, but perhaps it would be safer, if his motors would be isolated as well.

    @Thanos
    Are you sure that the fast mode connection does not use both motor coils anyway?
  14. tobi

    tobi New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Heilbronn
    Balance:
    341Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    hi @ all!

    Yes, of course the maximum-power!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC8oCxqMfjA

    Only thing i think about is that the speed is a bit different in the maximum-mode when swapped.
    You can see it in the video...

    Here are some photos of the motors with and without the modification:
    ground.jpg

    ground4.jpg
  15. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Hi Tobi,

    Nice video!

    I think that the difference in speed when changing the poles of the motor cames from the difference in resistance of the two coils... So when the hi-speed coil in placed to draw first the power it sources it with less resistance and give it to the armature with the most efficiency. But when the slow-speed gets first, the larger resistance block the power from flowing as it should to the secondary hi-speed coil.

    Its just my opinion based on the little electrical knowledge that I have gained the last years and maybe its wrong.
    Maybe the extra components you see in the wiper motor case blocking it after all. But who will dare to try such open heart surgery to totally remove the wiper motor's internals? :roll:

    I still haven't found the free time needed, to see how I have connected my wiper motors, but from what I recall (its almost a year before) I must just used the hi-speed coil and the ground... :?:

    Regards, Thanos
  16. tobi

    tobi New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Heilbronn
    Balance:
    341Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    yes, this sounds plausible to me :)

    I had a look at your upgrade-video (belt) and compared the motor-sounds when the motor moves down.
    Just a simple, not technical method, but it sounds like only normal high gear :D

    Tobi
  17. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Germany - Frankfurt/M
    Balance:
    418Coins
    Ratings:
    +7 / 1 / -0
    I've made this sound test as well. I think although the fast coupled reverse mode (the slower one) is a bit slower, it is faster then the default fast connection. Perhaps each motor should be mounted contrariwise to its partner per axis. In that case every axis has in every dircetion a fast and and a slower fast motor. In order to equalise their speed difference.

    Gruss
    Christian
  18. tobi

    tobi New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Heilbronn
    Balance:
    341Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Habe mehrere Versuche gemacht den Motorturm aufzubauen, ist gar nicht so einfach. Das größte Problem ist,
    dass ganze richtig stabil aufzubauen. Na ja, muß ich halt nochmals ran... Wird schon hoffentlich..

    Es muß ja noch ein Poti irgendwo ran, um die Positionsdaten zu übermitteln, richtig??

    Grüße
    Tobi
  19. tronicgr

    tronicgr

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Hi Tobi,

    Take a look on my motor mounting to take ideas:

    http://ptyxiouxos.net//greekbotics/user_projects/Flight_Simulator/main/joyriderpulley2Model1.pdf

    I know its a little difficult to make it steady!!

    Regards, Thanos
  20. tobi

    tobi New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Heilbronn
    Balance:
    341Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Thanks Thanos. Yes i had a look at your mounting-pdf. It´s very tricky to get i really stable...
    So i thought about this: Building a stable frame with aluminium and do the mounting of the motors with dexion like you used.
    Also a plywood 16mm thick to get the whole construction (plattform+motortowers) on it.

    What do you think about it?
    I´m a little bit confused if i ever get the belt really stretched that i does not slip... :?

    Please have a look at my sketch: (yellow=aluframe, brown=plywood)

    regards,
    Tobi

    Attached Files: