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Question Power supply tripping

Discussion in 'Electronic and hardware generally' started by Pino Pistolidas, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Pino Pistolidas

    Pino Pistolidas New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    I would like to ask for some help.
    I have upgraded my shoulder mounted 2DOF simulator.
    With a Sabertooth 2x32.

    2 pcs. motor 90ZYT155-24-MCP4 with 1:50 gear box 370W from Motion Control Products:

    https://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/products/8/167/dc-brushed-geared-motor-90zyt--mcp2---mcp4/

    And a 24V 1000W Led power supply from Aliexpress:

    https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/Sing...250.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2d2a4c4dnt0z3M

    Now my problem is that when playing e.q. Dirt Rally the power supply keeps tripping out.

    I have read that this most probably is due to regenerative voltages, and the recommendation is to use power resistors.

    I used the calculator from Dimension Engineering:

    https://www.dimensionengineering.com/calculators/power-resistor

    Do I use 24V and 15,5A (370W/24v) which comes to 1.5 Ohms.
    Or do I have to use 24V and 42A (1000W/24V) which comes to 0,5 Ohms.

    I have tried 2 pcs. of the 1.5 Ohms 10Watt resistors, one to P1 and one to P2. But this didn't help.
    Should I try the 0.5 Ohms and a higher Wattage (100W)?

    Or should I use batteries? Probably 2pc. in series and these then these parallel over the power supply.
    What power would I need?
    Would a couple 9Ah be enough or would I need for example 45Ah batteries?

    Or am I using a bad power supply? Would a power supply such as this one from Simukit be the best option?
    https://simukit.com/alimentations/11-alimentation-24v-1000w.html

    I hope my story is not to long and looking forward to your input.

    EDIT: I found out some more information about the voltgae clamp for the Sabertooth 2x32.
    The maximum current a voltgae clamp can do is 8A.
    So in my case the resistance to use is 24V / 8A = 3 Ohms.
    (I got this also confirmed by Dimension Engineering, the manufacturer of Sabertooth)
    Also see: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...e-build-basics-get-up-and-running.8058/page-4

    The power it has to disapate will be 24V x 8A = 192 Watt.
    So I have ordered 4 pc. 6 Ohms 100W power resistors from Aliexpress.
    I will put two 6 Ohms resistors in Parallel on each Voltage clamp (P1 and P2) of the Sabertooth and I will give an pdate about the reuslt.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  2. bixler13

    bixler13 Member

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    I am also using a sabertooth 2x32. I am using one of these bridge rectifiers as a big diode to prevent back current into the power supplies. it gets very hot in use, but I have not had a power supply trip. I will be adding a heat sink and a fan to the rectifiers to prevent them from getting hot.

    You can find more information in this faq.
  3. zapata_h

    zapata_h Member

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    It looks like regenerative voltage, try to put the batteries to see what happens
  4. Pino Pistolidas

    Pino Pistolidas New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Today I recieved the 1.5KE24A diodes from Farnell. https://uk.farnell.com/littelfuse/1-5ke24a/tvs-diode-1-5kw-20-5v-unidir-do/dp/2679628?st=1.5ke24a
    I put one in between the +24V of the power supply and the B+ connection of the Sabertooth 2x32 and this solved the issue with the tripping power supply.hug:
    Only it is getting really hot.
    Luckily I have also ordered the KBPC5010 Bridge DIODE from Aliexpress: http:// https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KBP...?spm=a2g0z.10010108.1000001.12.494657237MxKhX

    So I'll give that a try as soon as this comes in.
    Update to follow soon.
  5. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    I assume you guys know the whole purpose or using a rectifer/diode/resistor is to turn regeneration current into heat to get rid of it so it's expected they will get hot. They really only need cooling though if they go beyond thermal maximums.
  6. zapata_h

    zapata_h Member

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    That's right, you must add a larger sink and increase the refrigeration
  7. bixler13

    bixler13 Member

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    I put heat sinks and am blowing air over them now and they are running cool now.

    56331059_396159014513760_457528168664793088_n.jpg

    ^ heat sinks in the bottom right and bottom left covering the rectifiers.
  8. zapata_h

    zapata_h Member

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    perfect, the important thing is good refrigeration
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Pino Pistolidas

    Pino Pistolidas New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    This week I received the KBPC5010 Diode bridge. I put a big heat sink on it.
    I connected the two AC connections of the KBPC5010 to the + of my power supply.
    And the + connection of the KBPC5010 to the B+ connection of my Sabertooth.
    The heat sink get nice and warm but not hot.
    This solution really solved my problem with the tripping power supply. IMG_20190405_193319 (2).jpg
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Interesting.
  11. MarcoMade

    MarcoMade Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    hello, if I can pass my experience with problems with voltage return of the engines.
    I used large capacitors connected in parallel in the power supply output to solve, instead of batteries.
    I state that I use very large x 2 dof engines 16.1 ratio.
    but powered at 12vcc.
    the capacitors used for the motor come from the car audio world and are 500,000 uf
    I believe that 2 in series can give you that impulse of impulsive energy (low internal capacitor resistance) and eliminate back emf.
    regards
    Marco
  12. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    The way it has been wired, all regenerative current will be blocked by the Diode - so no current/heat with back EMF. The reason the diodes are getting hot?..... they are carrying all the motor load current when they are biased on and the motors are running. The back EMF resisters will of course still sink some current.
  13. MarcoMade

    MarcoMade Active Member

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    can you post a chart?
    I find it interesting
  14. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    I mostly agree which is why I said you shouldn't need heat sinks on the diodes unless running more current thru them than they are rated for.

    However,

    "Above are a couple simple diode circuit examples. On the left, diode D1 is forward biased and allowing current to flow through the circuit. In essence it looks like a short circuit. On the right, diode D2 is reverse biased. Current cannot flow through the circuit, and it essentially looks like an open circuit.

    *Caveat! Asterisk! Not-entirely-true... Unfortunately, there's no such thing as an ideal diode. But don't worry! Diodes really are real, they've just got a few characteristics which make them operate as a little less than our ideal model...

    Real Diode Characteristics
    Ideally, diodes will block any and all current flowing the reverse direction, or just act like a short-circuit if current flow is forward. Unfortunately, actual diode behavior isn't quite ideal. Diodes do consume some amount of power when conducting forward current, and they won't block out all reverse current. Real-world diodes are a bit more complicated, and they all have unique characteristics which define how they actually operate."

    https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/diodes/all
  15. MarcoMade

    MarcoMade Active Member

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    ok !! I did not think about it.
    soon I try with big skottly diodes mounted on a fin.
    in practice you have them connected in parallel to the power supply blocking emf as in the relay coils.
    what a fool not to have thought of it before, I thought that the bridges H stopped everything for their low internal resistance ..
    thanks bye
  16. Arazok

    Arazok Member

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    Hi, can someone explain, how the KBPC5010 are wired exactly ?
    As I can see, they have 4 pins.
    My assumption: +, - and 2x AC
    So from power supply + to the 2 AC connectors of the KBPC5010 and from the + of it to the Sabertooth ?
    And the - pin is not used by the KBPC5010, so - is going directly from power supply to Sabertooth - ?
  17. Pino Pistolidas

    Pino Pistolidas New Member Gold Contributor

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    You can connect the - from the power supply directly to the B- of the Sabertooth.
    No need to connect anything to the (-) of the KBPC5010
    This is how I connected it:
    Diode bridge.jpg
    • Informative Informative x 2
  18. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    There are several ways of wiring a bridge rectifier and one of them is as shown above. If you burn out a diode(s) due to to much current you can also wire it with the power supplies positive going to the rectifies negative then using one or both ac terminals as outputs and it will be like using a new rectifier again; that is until you burn out the second set of diodes also (note: using both ac terminals doubles the amperage as it also does in the example above).
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  19. Arazok

    Arazok Member

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    Thanks for your help, guys :)
  20. Arazok

    Arazok Member

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    New question:
    At the diodes inside the bridge you will have a 0,7V voltage drop, right ?
    Does it have impact to the motors, then ?
    I unfortunately have a power supply (HP PS-3701-1) where the voltage cannot be adjusted (or at least I don't know how and couldn't find a documentation in the WWW)