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Pololu Jrk 12v12

Discussion in 'SimTools compatible interfaces' started by Frakk, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    Ah good to hear, sorry forgot about the pid settings, yes needed, you can adjust these value as explained it the pololu user guide to limit the error of movement almost down to 0 mine runs with about 0.5ms delay error, not noticably at all. Once ya have the sim built fully adjust this to get finer respose from the motors.

    Ok the problem with the earthing motor, basically ya need to remove the dc motor from the winch, simply, remove saftey strap that is around the motor body, then the two screws on the motor face plus unhook the wires and the motors in ya hands. You will now notice 2 10-8mm bolts on the terminal face of the motor, remove these carefully and proceed to remove the terminal face plate, there will be a little resitance, thats the brushes on the motor armiture, if you can slide the whole centre out with the face plate or it can be trickly getting the brushes back into place but a small screwdriver or holding ya tonge in the right place they drop back in. Once free enough to see the back of the terminal plate you will notice a two resistor(i think that what it is,noise suppression?) linking the terminal to the face plate, I just pried free with the plyers and put it all back together.

    For a simply test without power on the motor is to use a multimeter and test for continuity, +ve on terminal and -ve on face plate or motor body this should result in no reading change. All good ready to put back in winch.

    Hope ya understand all that because if test fails with mutimeter ya seat will have 12vdc running through the frame, not good.

    :cheers:
  2. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    Ahh ok! So I need to open the motor! Ok, today I will make this surgery action! (hoping I don't make some damage ehehe :blush: )

    Mate, today morning I received the RC hely gear, so, now I am ready to make the appropriate X-SIM tests!
    IMG_0008.jpg

    back to your past post :
    Ok now I have the Hely gear, today night I will mount it so I rest in wait of your directives!, How now I can set the UP limit of my arm motor at 1000? and how about the DOWN limit at -1000? From X-Sim? or from the Jrk config utility?


    So, thank you my friend, you are giving me a real BIG help, really dude. :thbup:

    And mate, please, believe me, answer me just when you can and just when you are totally out of your business.
    I hate to think to give you stress or other busy mood over your own commitments!, so don't care if you answer me in 1, 2 or 30 days. I like to know you answering me just when you can.
    :highfive:
  3. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    Great to see you guys making progress with these controllers.

    Aldo, you don't have to scale anything, that function is only available for you in Analog and Pulse Width mode only. If you want to adjust the pot's travel, you have to use the Feedback tab.

    What happens:
    -Profiler receives -1000...1000 number
    -Converts to 32bit number for math
    -Converts back to 8bit number in the USO 0..255 -> this is the position
    -Pololu has it's own feedback range: 0..4096, therefore: -1000 = 0 = 0, and 1000 = 255 = 4096.
    -You can adjust the endpoints (how much your potentiometer travels) in the Feedback tab, and calibrate these maximum and minimum values.
  4. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    Hi Frakk! yes I am very happy about this little BIG motor controller!

    I have yet some little darkness about the main logic about the making of an axis (math plug-in etc) but I am going forward day after day! (aeorobbie giving me a really important help!).

    Mmm probably I'm getting what you mean! and sure I needed these your clear informations about the transformation of the profiler variables when I have to edit USO text.

    one thing:
    when you speaking about -1000 to 1000 or 0 to 255 or 0 to 4096, so we obtain a phisical precise position of the motor arm right (not my motor arm continuing the rotation always and always right?)
    Please look at posted pic:
    (pls make full screen image for look it better)

    it's right the logic? And about the speed and accelleration of these position steps? Is the X-SIM providing these accellerations and speed?

    Ps. this night I will mount the rc hely gear and I will start to make some improved experiments with the mounted potentiometer! tomorrow I will refer here about! ;D

    Thank you so much!

    Attached Files:

  5. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    In your picture you only show the values from the TestPlugin. In a game these values will be much higher, but the Profiler will take care of this (min/max in 1:1 G-Force).

    You only want to limit the physical movement of the pot from 270° to <180°. This is 2/3 of the maximum travel, so you need to adjust the 0..4096 feedback limits by 2/3. I recommend to do this symetrically, making 2048 your middle.

    Min = 2048 - (2/3 * 2048) = 683
    Max = 2048 + (2/3 * 2048) = 3413

    Try this with the manual target slider. I don't know if the target will be limited, or scaled.
  6. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    thank you Frakk, now I try to make in the real thing what you telling to me!
    Tomorow I will refer! :yes:
  7. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    Hi again!

    I spent last 2 days to mount the iron support for the potentiometer and finally I have my pot mounted in my winch, with the rc hely gear mounted into pot too.

    I attach some photos for who want to follow (as me) the eaorobbie method for have the pot as a motor probe that communicates with the Jrk about the arm motor position.

    Was not too easy for me to assemble the entire pot kit into the winch, I have little pratice in these mechanical works and is needed many precision for avoid the rc hely gear rotate retort or get too heavy from the winch gear.
    Obvious, after the assemble, I put the pot on half rotation of the 10turns for avoid to start motor with the pot already at the turn end (then a broken pot)

    Most difficulty thing was the mount of the rc hely gear in the turnable straight iron piece of the pot, because the rc hely gear have a central hole much wider than the diameter of the turnable iron piece.
    A bit of fantasy and imagination is apreciated for make these things :D

    For now just I start the JRK config utility, pushed start motor button and I saw my motor is in the stop situation of half turned pot, so for now all right .

    last time I started jrk config utility before today, I could move my motor clockwise and anticlockwise with the pot, more rotation more speed.

    Now the situation is different. My pot is mounted in the winch and it will get the actual arm motor position giving this information to the Jrk.
    Now It's time to understand the real logic of the feedback position, so I back to the last Frakk post of this thread for my first experiments in the feedback position matter.

    I will refeer soon about.
    ;D

    Attached Files:

  8. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    Ok right ya getting there, all together. One thing that I have added is a saftey swich (toggle) on the main power to card if things dont go the right way or something goes wrong very handy to stop the system.

    Ok now in the pololu configuration software you need to click on the feedback folder to set the max/min values this will set the top/bottom of the accuators arm.

    Now with usb only connected and motor power switched off.
    Click Feedback Folder.
    Click on Learn.
    Now it asks you to set the maxium forward, this was my arm all the way down.
    Now manually move arm by rotating the cog that sits between the main motor gear and your heli gear.
    Click OK mine was 50mm from the ground.
    Now it asks you to set the maxium backward, this was my arm all the way up.
    Once rotated back
    Click OK mine was 150mm from ground, resulting in 100mm of movement.
    Click Apply setting to device

    Right now you have set the maxuim/mininum height that your arm will travel inconjuntion with the max and min value that x-sim sends. One thing before powering the motor to test
    have the power switch in hand if motor spins the wrong way and this can be changed in the pololu software.
    hope this helps mate
  9. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    Ps the best cog to mount accutors is on the oppsite side, more torque.
    But looks like you pulled it out. :uups:
  10. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    OK!, done.
    I had the configuration thinking about a theoretical leg platform attached to my motor gear. And now I have the situation that you can look at my posted pics. But before you guys looking at my pics, please read this:
    After the setting operation, between max height and minimum height I have my potentiometer has just made 1 (one!?) intere rotation/turn (of the 10 turns available).
    now please look my pics.


    THEORETICAL PLATFORM LOWEST HEIGHT (photo and Jrk config utility)
    minimum_leg_height_photo.jpg
    minimum_leg_height.jpg





    THEORETICAL PLATFORM MEDIUM HEIGHT (photo and Jrk config utility) medium_leg_height_photo.jpg
    medium_leg_height.jpg





    THEORETICAL PLATFORM MAX HEIGHT (photo and Jrk config utility)
    max_leg_height_photo.jpg
    max_leg_height.jpg


    Code:
    parentheses:
    the pics don't show the real project, I know the leg will be NOT on that side, I want to mount the accutors in the opposite side and not on the side you see in the photo. 
     take these pictures just for let me to underastand the logic of the actual situation! (and in previous post you can'tt see the gear on the opposite side just 'cause I dismount it for a check and I have to remount it!
     Sure I will mount the actutors where eaorobbie had mounted it   :) ) 
    

    So,
    So, It's all ok? my POT just make a single rotation from maximum value to minimum value! It's right?
    And more generally, I am following the right way? :eek:

    THANK YOU ALL!


    PS
    Done the Frakk conversion!, now I have to go to work. Later I will post the news!
    :)
  11. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    Spot on mate, with mine the highest reading on the pot (4095) is my minimum height of platform and the lowest reading on the pot (0) is my maximum height of platform.
  12. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    Hi eaorobbie and hi frakk, I am very happy to announce that with your help, finally I get some serious improvements! :thbup:

    Yesterday night, after reading and reading these posts on this thread, I and my friend have done several experiments.
    We made many JRK config utility settings:

    *feedback page for obtain correct max, middle, low point of my arm motor

    *PID page for test various feedback dead zone (very important 'cause my pot must to follow and hold the target and when the motor have a fast speed so my pot can feel very difficulty to make this work! then the feedback dead zone is very useful to correct my pot's errors)

    * motor page for set the appropriate max speed and max accelleration of my motor (more fast the motor go = more difficulty for my pot to obtain a correct feedback position.



    and we have reached exactly the result shown in the last picture I put here yesterday! (the leg of the platform can travel anywhere from lowest height to maximum height).

    Here my configuration in JRK config utility (feedback page, PID page, motor page):

    Feedback_page.jpg
    PID_page.jpg
    motor_page.jpg

    Here my configuration in X-SIM (sender test pallet and profiler math setup - Output 1:1(GForce) math plugin:
    (BOTH THE TEST PALLET AND THE OUTPUT1:1GFORCE have MIN = -4096 and MAX = +4096 (I think is not too correct considering the values translation that Frakk saying to me but for now is my better result -I hate math..- :blush: )
    output11Gforce.jpg

    sender_test_pallet.jpg

    Ok and now here the video result in various jrk config utility:
    for these tests I used the Sender test pallet slider effect 21 to move my motor!

    X-SIM TEST 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Av7IUU_g8
    JRK config utility settings:
    MAX DUTY CICLE = 50
    BRAKE DURATION = 50
    FEEDBACK DEADZONE = 25



    X-SIM TEST 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQKaABfLodU
    JRK config utility settings:
    MAX DUTY CICLE = 60
    BRAKE DURATION = 50
    FEEDBACK DEADZONE = 30



    X-SIM TEST 3
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHEssK--SYk
    JRK config utility settings:
    MAX DUTY CICLE = 80
    BRAKE DURATION = 50
    FEEDBACK DEADZONE = 40



    X-SIM TEST 4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIppJfqwmf0
    JRK config utility settings:
    MAX DUTY CICLE = 80
    BRAKE DURATION = 50
    FEEDBACK DEADZONE = 50


    You can notice that more accelleration and speed my motor has so my pot feel more difficulty to obtain the correct position (with the up and down effect while my pot trying to obtain the correct position!)

    So dudes, I repeat, I am very happy to obtain these results! And I would to give you a big thank you for the help!
    Today I will continue some other experiments 'cause I would to obtain some in game variables and not more test plugin pallet :eek: :happy:

    For now please tell me anything you consider wrong or incorrect in this my actual situation !
    :cheers:
  13. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    test not bad proofs it all works but when you transfer the movement to the other side you power and speed gains are a lot better plus uses more of the pot rotation which give you better movement resolution which in turn makes its movement more accurate. But well done :cheers: :thbup: come a long way.
  14. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    Thank you for encouragement eaorobbie! :thbup: and what you write about the use of the other winch side gear it's a very good news!
    I was thinking about to have more rotation of the pot for obtain more precision in his work!

    So, It's time to remount other side winch gear!
    I dismount this gear to remove the iron cable inside the winch but when I try to remount this gear, I had many difficulties because I have to dismount other gears too! (the gears shown in my videos)

    But now it's time to remount it.
    see in the next posts of this thread :hi:





    PS:
    I have made many tests about the problem of your destroyed G25 wheel.
    with my tests using multimeter I see my winch is perfectly isolated (not live). I think I don't need to open it for remove the components you saying to me.
    My tests with multimeter :
    multimeter connected on battery and on winch armour (included motor body). I obtain my winch armour and my motor body are isolated.

    Just I hope that I understand exactly what you mean.
    (If I understand correctly, your G25 problem is born because your winch was not isolated so the winch armour was live and when you mount the G25 (live it too) you got the destruction.)
  15. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    as long as your motor is isolated there will be know problems. I just unwound my wire, I think a grub screw held the end in place. The way my system sets up using 95% of pots turn so nice resolution for the fine bumps.
  16. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    Hello again dudes.

    My experiments continue, I mount the other side gear and I notice what eaorobbie said : more torque!
    For mantain an high movement speed I had to increase the duty cycle and now I am more or less at 60/70 % of total motor power. With this increased duty cycle, I notice that the rc hely gear (the one in which the pot is mounted) goes faster than before so I had to do a lot more attention mounting the pot's gear.

    Many precision is needed now, and just a millimeter of error can cause a destroyed pot or the pot's gear disconnecting from the motor gear.... as in my case.. I get my pot damaged, loosing time and morale! :no:

    But now it's ok, I bought a new pot and I managed to fit quite well the wheel, just for obtain one hour of continuous experiments without damages.


    Ok,
    Here my jrk config utility configuration (feedback page, PID page, motor page):
    feedback_page.jpg

    pid_page.jpg

    motor_page.jpg

    with this configuration I can easly obtain the result that you can watch in this video (using Jrk config utility):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOcfZPD-JaA
    * Absolute max (max platform height) = 3887 (jrk value)
    * middle position = 2048 (jrk value)
    * Absolute min (min platform height) = 275 (jrk value)
    (Using 2/3 of the total pot rotations)

    Ok my problem start when I start to use X-SIM.
    I was using an Axis with a Gforce 1:1 math, look at pic:
    gforce11math .jpg

    So, I start the force sender, I open the test pallets (slider 21) and I start the motor and.. I notice that the middle position is different between Jrk config utility and X-SIM...!? :?

    Over, giving the max value of the slider 21 (+1000) I notice that my gear go in the maximum UP position, more or less correctly but when I give the minimum value of the slider 21 (-1000) I notice that my gear don't go in the maximum DOWN position but exactly in the middle position of the jrk config utility!!.. Sure I can't explain very well so please look at this pic for understand well what I mean :
    jrkconfig_vs_xsim.jpg

    Then??? I tried to change the GForce1:1 math with many values, using the split negative and positive option too but nothing! I can just change the smoth of the movement, not the limits.
    I can't obtain the movement limits of the Jrk config utility, I can just to use the area that you can watch in the attached image!

    Help! :eek:
  17. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    ok looks like the uso's might not be set right.

    This is what i use with pololu card set to serial -

    In the xsims uso's important to set value = (value/2*1) + 0 as with direct communication to the pololu requires a value of 0 - 128 and xsim works in values of 0 - 256.

    My DataPacket sent at simulatorstart = ~221~~63~ - Set target(221) at position(63) middle
    My DataPacket with axisinformations = ~221~~a01~ - Set target(221) at position(value)
    My DataPacket sent at simulatorstop = ~255~ - Stop card - Puts it into waiting status.

    Other values differ in pololu config but yours seem not bad so we will go there once ya have the card working properly in xsim.
  18. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    Ahh really good! now all works fine with your USO page configuration! :clap:

    But now I would really to know exactly the real function of the USO page! and not just be happy about I get the correct gear position! :blush:
    So please take a look of my USO page :
    my_actual_uso.jpg

    Ok Please tell me If I am wrong:
    RED ZONE :
    Before I was thinking this zone was the X-SIM PID configuration but now I am thinking this zone is not PID.. but probably is related to the GREEN ZONE.

    GREEN ZONE:
    Now I think this zone shown the values (8 or 16 or 32bit) that the X-SIM USO send to the JRK.
    In other words, my game give me a value (thx to force sender), this value get modified by math plugin in profiler and in finish this value is transformed in 8bit (in us case) for be sended to the JRK.
    But you say that the pololu requires a value of 0 - 128 and not 0 - 255 as X-SIM is sending. Why?, maybe the JRK works at 4bit resolution?

    BLUE ZONE:
    Sincerely I don't know the function of this zone. Maybe is related with the motor PWM frequency?

    ORANGE ZONE:
    Ahh ok, this is the most interesting zone of the USO page.
    You write :
    What is exactly 221??
    I understand that the 63 is the middle position value. Ready to be shipped to the JRK via USO (when my gear will be at max height position so this value will be so and so like 125 and when my gear will be at min height position so this value will be so and so 10)

    But this 221?? I don't understand what is this 221! what you mean for target?
    :blush:

    Thanks!!
  19. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    The Green and Red zones are together: They do the last step of the value conditioning. As you can see, you can divide, multiply and add to the axis value coming from the math section. After you do this, you select if you want 8/16/32bit numbers to be sent out to the hardware.

    Blue zone: This is where you set up the COM port, serial communication to the hardware.

    Orange zone: The actual commands that are being sent out to the COM port -> Hardware. This will depend on the controller.
    I beleive (221) is command for Position, that tells the Pololou: Go to position: 63. (255) means the communication is over.

    The Pololu will do the PID, and you set up the hardware in their Pololu software.
  20. AldoZ

    AldoZ Member

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    :thbup: very good! So these 221 and 255 are just commands to comunicate with the JRK!.
    A little thing:
    If I have 3 axis (so 3 motor legs), so I need to write the command for all 3 axis right?
    EXAMPLE:

    Datapacket sent at simulatorstart ~225~~63~
    Datapacket with axisinformations ~225~~a01~ ~225~~ao2~ ~225~~ao3~ (in the same text line)
    Datapacket sent at simulatorstop ~255~


    It's right?