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Nice Simulator ( Selfmade? )

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by Michael N., Jan 4, 2009.

  1. Michael N.

    Michael N. Member

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    Hi, i saw this Video in a another German Forum (VR Virtual Racing) . Very Cool Simulator :thbup: . I really like it :) , it is called FRC Motion Simulator. I have asked him if it is selfmade and i`m still waiting for answer. (Edit: it is selfmade)
    http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=WNxkLahkZJA

    Here is a another Video. There you can see a lot more from the Simulator. I`m really enthusiastic of it :thbup: .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRU6X12FSnE
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. Ringorumble

    Ringorumble Active Member

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    In the second video you see that he uses the scn atuators, he also sold a frex style aluminium rig some time ago, just without the actuators ..
  4. Fahim

    Fahim Member

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    Dear sirs,

    This simulator just seemed correct.
    I am in middle of making scn5 seat moving simulator and when I saw this, I just felt there was something correct about the video.

    Wether it was the big screen that made it seem more realistic or that when the guy moves, the car seems to move in proportian.

    Hard to explain but I hope scn5 seat moving simulators can get same feeling this guy must have felt when driving.

    Kind Regards.
  5. R-eng

    R-eng Member

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    Well, the Frex type of sim really depends on the movement of the seat in relation to the steering and pedal. It attempts to recreate the sensation of the body moving about, however little, to the relatively stationary control devices in a racing car.

    This design eliminates that function by moving everything in unison. I believe that moving the screen is okay, but the Frex sensation is destroyed. Ultimately, it attempts to be more like a Joyrider without adequate rotation to simulate the g-forces. IMHO it fails in both methods. About the only thing is can believably simulate are the bumps from the z-axis.

    R-eng
  6. TorstenFRC

    TorstenFRC New Member

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    I cannot understand exactly what you mean?
  7. R-eng

    R-eng Member

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    @ TorstenFRC,

    If you have not done so already, read carefully the description and theory of the Frex system.

    http: //www.frex.com/gp/ [select: SimConMOTION tab]

    Unfortunately, the conversion to English is not the best. But if you correlate the video diagrams to the text, the explanation becomes very clear.

    Frex motion style: Strong G force simulated by move seat only. Realized to simulate neck muscle working by head is going to keep vertical position.
    Other motion style: Whole cockpit include monitor move together. It feels only poor G force.

    I, personally do not agree with this theory. But neither system is absolutely correct. Frex believes that if you can mimic the positon the human body takes during these menuevers, then the response of the body (muscles) to the angular displacement, will trick the mind into believing the forces to be correct. Other (Joyrider type) actually attempts to apply the correct forces on auditory and vestibular pathways by using gravity, even if it is less than 1G of gravity. These forces can be sustained, Frex cannot.

    The problem with the Other (Joyrider type) systems is that parts of the body will move correctly to the forces arising from real life race cars, and other parts move in the opposite direction. This can dilute and even destroy the mind trick. By using visual cues, we can associate forces that we feel to what is expected by the race cars motions. This is not fully accurate, but we are now creating a new paradigm peculiar to racing simulation. This can be learned to be correct, because it is fully reproduceable and not random. As long as we can feel the same effects on all parts of the body, right or wrong, this then becomes the norm. In effect, this is true for both the Frex and Joyrider systems. So both can be valid, without being correctly accurate to what really happens in a race car on a real race track.

    Unfortunately, this FRC Motion Simulator is really nothing more than a very, very diluted Joyrider type. It is not a Frex!

    R-eng
  8. Ringorumble

    Ringorumble Active Member

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    R-Eng, maybe some people dont want the neck trick (me too) and just like some sort of immersion which you can surely get with that setup.
  9. R-eng

    R-eng Member

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    I am not saying which trick you should get. I am only pointing out the differences and why one is more or less realistic than the other. The choice of what you want from a simulator is yours to make...immersion or realism, or something in between.

    R-eng
  10. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    @Torsten
    Btw, is the modified Frex your simulator? I've noticed right now that the video is callled FRC, like your member name.
    If so, would be nice to know what the builder says to the mod actually. Top or flop?

    Regards
  11. TorstenFRC

    TorstenFRC New Member

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    Hallo Ego ,

    da ich weis das Du unsere Sprache sprichst mal in deutsch ;)

    zudem ist mein engl grotten schlecht ( zu meiner Schulzeit wurden nur Osteuropäischen Sprachen gelehrt.
    evtl. kannst du meine Worte ins Engl. übersetzten um den anderen nicht dt. Usern das ganze auch verständlich zu machen. Danke in dem falle schon einmal.

    Zu deiner Frage,

    Frex diente mir mit seinen Bauteilen eine Basis des Antriebs, wobei mich das Konzept der Japaner nicht überzeugt hat. Somit wurde der FRC-Motion entworfen. Ob Top oder Flop ?kann ich nur sagen TOP der Test mit dem Frex System führte noch mehr dazu das gesamt konzept zu ändern, was ich auch von einem Cupfahrer der den FRC-Motion testen konnte bestätigt bekommen habe. Zudem hab ich mich an den Abmessungen eines Cup Fahrzeuges orientiert, was die Sitzposition betrifft. Im ganzen bekommt man ein reales Fahrgefühl , wobei Real nicht zu ersetzen ist :D . Jedoch die Tatsache das sich der Oberkörper fest im Sitz die Hände gleichmässig am Lenkrad und die Füße ausgeglichen mitbewegen bringt ein ( ich will mal sagen fantastisches Fahrgefühl ). Im Video bin ich mit einem Speed von etwa 2000 gefahren es ist also noch Potential für mehr da aber so ist das schon völlig ausreichend.
    Gerne kann auch getestet werden. Auch würde mich die X-Sim Geschichte interesieren um noch mehr FRC Motion zu bauen 8) . Das mit Japan ist doch eine umständliche sache und die Ständigen Patches und ein wochenlanges warten auf Shige nervt schon mit der Zeit.

    So ich hoffe all deine Fragen soweit beantwortet zu haben, gernen können wir uns auch noch ausführlicher austauschen bei mehr Interesse an dem FRC.

    LG Torsten
  12. egoexpress

    egoexpress Active Member

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    Das überrascht mich jetzt ehrlich gesagt etwas. Allerdings kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass das Gefühl der Beschleunigung so gut rüber kommt wie beim Frex, da der Effekt auf die Arme fehlt, und für die Simulation der G-Kräfte durch Auslenkung des Sitzes bzw Körpers ist der Bewegungsspielraum eigentlich zu gering.
    Aber ist alles nur Theorie.
    Testen würde ich deine Konstruktion ja schon mal gerne.

    Gruss
  13. TorstenFRC

    TorstenFRC New Member

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    Da kommt Punkt 3 zum Zug und ich kann nur sagen testen. von FFM sinds doch nur 250 km bis zu mir ;)

    Bewegung des Körpers ist gut, mag sicher nicht so spektakulär aussehen doch das Gefühl wenn man drin Sitzt ist ein anderes als das was man sieht.

    und nochmals betonen tue das testen ein besseres Bild zum Urteilen erlaubt :clap: :clap:

    Gruß
  14. TorstenFRC

    TorstenFRC New Member

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    Kleines Update :hi:

    Hab ein neues Video hochgeladen..

    LG Torsten

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gakz21uXJa8
  15. RaceRay

    RaceRay Administrator Staff Member SimAxe Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, SimAxe, SimforceGT
    Racing-Land Erfurt? :) Geht Erfurt jetzt schon als Bundesland durch ? *grins*

    Mir fällt auf dass sich das virtuelle Cockpit stärker bewegt als das reale...

    Wo steht der Sim? Sieht nicht mehr nach Wohnzimmer aus.

    Schöne Grüße
    René
  16. TorstenFRC

    TorstenFRC New Member

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    Nee aber Thüringen :hi:

    Ja die Einstellung ist etwas softer gewählt, deswegen.

    genau da...
    vorher stand er auch nicht im Wohnzimmer ;) auch wenns vieleicht danach aussah..

    LGrüße

    Torsten