newby looks for plc and motioncontrollers

That makes sense. I was thinking about PLC's like Allen Bradley systems. Those will definitely run you into the thousands of euros and to make them PD or PID control an AC motor is not for the heart of the hobbyist.

I absolutely agree that you don't want to be putting together an AC motor controller, unless you know what you are doing.
That is why I recommended an out of the box commercial phase inverter that takes some sort of TTL logic level, 0-5V input of some sort, perhaps a RS485 or RS232 interface.

The K8061 is just a microcontroller proto board with a bunch of inputs/outputs on the PCB to play with. You still need a Phase Shifter to control and deliver the power to the AC motors.

I can program a uC to do the same thing as the K8061 (actually, you have to program that too), on a much smaller board with only the necessary components, but I agree that to buy something out of the box is the easiest (probably not the best) way to go.

If you'd have looked into the TECO E2 series inverter product sheet, you would have seen, that those inverters support PWM, serial and analog voltage input for speed and direction control. Thats why I recommended them ;D

The K8061 supports dynamic voltage outputs for speed and direction control as well. And those interfaces are fully supported by XSim already, and do not need further programming.
They have been used by several members already, and they work. Thats why I recommended them

EDIT: I see now whats your point. Real motion controllers do the positioning autonomeously, while the calculation is done by Xsim, when using the K8061. It works anyway.

Hi I want to use this motioncontroller
http://buggies.builtforfun.co.uk/Sim/hardware.php ,
Because its user friendly I2C
but without the MD03 motorcntrollers instead I was thinking of Omrom J1000 1,5kW inverters with the 220 volt motors.
Omron is asking of V/F or open loop
and
regenerative energy
Well at this point my knowlegde just stops there
Please any comments are welcome.
greetz

Yes I was thinking of controlling the position in hardware instead of letting X-Sim do it. Hardware is much faster, more accurate and real time, just like the AMC1.5. X-Sim is only sending out the position data, the controller handles the feedback and error with P/PD/PID control.

V/F I am guessing is for Voltage / Frequency? Or do they mean Closed (V/F) or Open loop? I think you should explain them your application. Just say the motors will be used as large servos for motion control. The whole system will be a closed loop (meaning you have feedback and error correction), but if the motor controller is just open loop (you are only setting the direction and speed) that is fine too.

They might have closed-loop PID motor controllers with position feedback. That would be perfect because all you would need to do is interface x-sim and the controller.

Hi Frakk
Like this?
40SPU-1 signal processor card -> Omrom J1000 1,5kW inverters ->220 volt motors -> position controlled by rotary encoders connected to the 40spu-1?

Over the past weeks I collected so much info, I don`t know where to start.
regards Henk

I cannot find any info about the 40SPU-1, if you could post a datasheet that would be great. If the signal processor can do PID control, that is exactly what you would do.

I would love to play around with my microcontrollers+Omron J1000+AC gearhead motors

I know, and despite that, I proposed him to use a K8061 (prebuilt 20Euro additionally) for now, as the AMC requires a quite difficult solder job. With the K8061 he'd have a plug-n-play solution to get it running.

Later on, when the whole construction (platform, motors/gearboxes, inverters) is set up and running, he would be able to upgrade to the DIY AMC motion controller still.

Well, at least as long a he is going to use XSim anyway. Because Ian' motion-controller hardware from buggiebuiltforfun, he linked above, is not compatible with XSim.

To be honest, as much as I would like to see him build something with XSim. As he is going to put a Cessna fuselage onto his platform, he probably will be better off with Ian' motion controller, as it is more user friendly due to its restriction to MS Flight Simulator simulation software.

He did not ask for experimental suggestions. He asked for a working solution!

The K8061 + inverter is a tested and working solution, and the AMC + inverter is a better working solution he may want to upgrade later. Ian' motion controller is probably even a better solution in his case (just MS FS).

Edit: The prebuilt K8061 is called Velleman VM140. A single one would support enough analog voltage outputs for all 3 motors.

I am not suggesting anything experimental for him to do... I am just saying that I would love to do that...

Hi herewith the datasheet,
http://buggies.builtforfun.co.uk/Sim/Su ... _Sheet.pdf
It might look strange but I can build mechanicly almost every thing,(will take pics off the platform when finished)
I can really play with a welding torch, drilling and machining, know a little about electrics.
But except a little knowlegde about computers,
I can`t handle a solder job, more then once a circuitboard have been blown up when I was soldering.
I love electronics but prefere out of the box,
I`m working in the capstans and winches field,electric,pheumatic and hydraulic so materials like steel, motors,gears and controllboxes (even Vectron inverters but don`t know how to intergrate these with Vplus 4.10 program) are widly available to me.
We have a program specially for winches to calculated forces and needed motor/gearbox data the has come up with the above data about the motors/actuators and a gearboxratio.
Also samples off other platforms on the internet are based on light weights and balanced loads.
Greetz Henk

Omron J1000 3 pcs incl netfilter it will set me about 1400 euro,not included
a controllbox, 3 motors/gearbox and PLC
will look for cheaper options
greetz

Yeah, you are looking into some serious money to move that cockpit.

You said you have access to hydraulics? Maybe you should take that approach. I don't know how much would that cost, but hydraulics will be a more reliable and simpler mechanical solution. With motors, you will need gearing, mechanical pulleys or arms, plus the frame for pivot points. That is a lot of mechanical parts and moving around 300kg won't be easy on them. With a hydraulic setup you can eliminate a lot of this. You will basically need a platform, cylinders with control, and pivots to attach all this to your cockpit.

As for the platform today ,
I`m completing the last task drilling some holes in the pivotsupportplate .
This weekend I will mount all the small bits and secure the Cessna to the platform.
Hydraulics isn`t that easy,
You have to consider High pressures and flows, also dedicated electric valves and powerpacks are not cheap .
And because my setup is on the first floor ,I need a dampproof floor ,concrete sucks up oil if spilled and gives a nice stain on the ceilling in my livingroom.
Resulting in a sleeping place under a bridge as my wife will throw me out
But it is an option
I will take some measurements with a loadcell when the platform is finished,
so I know excactly wich forces there are on the platform and take it from there.
Mounting electric or hydraulic powerplant and lines is easy for me . as I have more then 20 years of experience as a mechanical engineer.
Regards henk

Hi, herewith my little plane, also I am in contact with Indumex for frequentie inverters
really nice people.
greetz Henk

Another pic

Nice!

Did you decide about 2 or 3 DOF yet? For 3 DOF you should use a spring to absorb the platform weight Imo.

Looking forward to see some pics of your motion platform under the fuselage.

Btw, the cockpit pic is quite small.

regards

Yes for now , it will be 2 dof maybe in the future I will go for 3 dof.
But first I`d like to fly.
changing things will be easy if I know the basics
greetz

It`s getting even better,
I just found out that the frequentie inverters Teco E2 serie is exactly the same ,as we have in the company I work for .
They are only under a different name ,our brand name is called Bonfiglioli Synthesis serie.
I will be able to buy 3 inverters as the cost will be much lower ,
But for now I have to do all the calculations all over again ,
as I`ll go for 3 dof if I could find the right PLC .
greetz

You dont need a PLC at all. The AMC motion controller will do the job.

Hi Christian,
Please can you explain how to get 3 dof(heave) of this card,
also If I`m looking at You Tube it looks like the motion is out of sync with fs2004/FSX.
Does this card can excellerate/decellerate the motor rpm for g force feeling?
Can I set up a triangle motor X Y Z axis setup instead of 1 motor for x and one motor for y axis
so the total weight of the platform is diveded between the 3 motor/gearbox and give 3 axis movement?
Also how does the amc the position of the axis