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Showroom Newb's compact 2DOF build - Moving from a commercial unit to a DIY under seat mover

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Kranky Pantz, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform

    Thank you.

    Yes, so far I'm satisfied with how it's working, but there's MUCH tuning to do...or should I say start doing.

    I haven't done much of anything so far tuning-wise or creating motion profiles, aside from setting the various axis up.

    Even those are most likely waaaay off from where they should be.

    For now, I'm just reading, reading & even more reading up on all of this.


    Here's a little video of the rig in action, as proof that it actually works ;), LOL!

    It's 3 laps of Rallycross @ Wildcrest.

    The first run is in cockpit view, then switches over to chase-cam view.

    Keep in mind that I race about 90% in VR, and I only use a monitor for when there's either no VR or to watch the odd replay such as this one.

    Due to this, I prefer smaller & quicker movements (other than the jumps of course) to trick the brain, rather than big overly-exaggerated movements which mimic open seas.


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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  2. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    WoooHoooo! That looks like fun! Do you notice any kind of delay(latency) from what your seeing to the movement of the rig?

    Can't wait to get mines started, this with VR and DD wheel should be epic!
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  3. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Nope, aside from being un-tuned it feels a lot like the NLRv3 did....mind you...the $4K CAD NLRv3!!! :eek:

    The only difference here is that more games are supported via plug-ins, I know where EVERY part was purchased, how it went together, how it comes apart, and hopefully how to troubleshoot/repair it if need be.

    If not, I'm sure I can find a thread where someone else has had a similar issue, or simply put the question out there and hope that there's a solution.

    Mine's not nearly as pretty to look at, but in VR it's all the same. :cool:

    Other positives of going this DIY route over the NLRv3 are :
    No need to worry about a warranty period (I have none ;))
    Product support + parts for the NLRv3 are in Poland, but I'm in Canada and there's no North American Service Depot.
    Not having to ship it from Canada all the way to & from Poland at my expense plus pay for any additional parts/service which could total in the high hundreds of $, or possibly into the thousand(s) of $.


    For me, those factors alone are well worth the time it took to build, plus I've met some great & helpful people along the way...very inspirational.

    I still can't believe when I sit in the rig and go for a spin that I...the guy with 10 thumbs...built it. :grin



    The Humble Store just dropped the pCARS 2 Season Pass by 50% today, which is AWESOME because it has a lot of content, and more Rallycross cars + tracks (my favorite combo).

    Go check out the sale, there's a decent amount of motion simulator compatible racing titles which have some major discounts, WRC4 being one of 'em.

    Festival Of Speed Sale, up to 80% off racing titles for the next 4 days only.
    https://www.humblebundle.com/store/promo/festival-of-speed-mk-2/?hmb_source=store_home


    Best of luck when you start on your build after your vacation.

    Me? I'd just cancel it and start building right away. ;)
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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  4. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    I thought about it but already purchased non refundable tickets to HI.:grin
    Ill be ordering parts here and there so when i get back it will be delivered soon after. Thanks again for the list that you put together. I didn't even know PGSaw sold the u joint till i looked at your list. That saves me from going to junkyard and welding one together.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform

    That U-Joint was a one-off which they cobbled together for me, which was an ATV driveshaft + two 1/8" plates welded to it to form a flange.

    It would depend upon if they had the parts kicking around or not.

    They charged me a flat $50 CAD for everything, and it's working fantastic!

    The guy's name which I dealt with is Kim.

    Here's their actual website + info if you wish to deal with them directly and bypass eBay.
    https://www.kkmotors.ca/
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    I checked their ebay store and they have u- joint for sale.

    How is the progress on your build? Is the seat mover good in relaying g forces? I"m still debating whether I want to do full motion like @Erwan960 build as we have a similar aluminum rig or just a seat mover like you.
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  7. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Is that a complete u-joint with plates welded onto both ends?


    My build progress is pretty much complete until Springtime, barring any tweaks or repairs.

    I've moved onto the software side of things now, and am installing plug-ins, creating suitable motion profiles, tweaking & tuning as need be.

    The seat mover is performing great, better than I could have hoped for and should only improve with proper tuning.


    You'll have to decide on a style of motion before the build, as it's all in the planning...as well as following the old "measure twice, cut once rule".

    If I build a secondary rig someday I'll probably opt for a 3DOF, just to try something different.

    Since my current 2DOF seat mover is easy enough to just unbolt and use elsewhere, I could simply just plop it onto a single-motor rear traction loss platform and be done with it.
    Hmmmmmmm...LOL!!!!!

    That won't be anytime soon though, as I'm EXTREMELY happy with this 2DOF seat mover and am looking forward to trying a few more titles tonight.

    I'm still shocked as to how much it feels like the vastly more expensive (and mysterious) NLRv3 Motion Platform.

    Mysterious as in not having a clue as to what parts are inside it, what to do when it breaks, how (or if) I can fix it without voiding the warranty, or having to send it back to Poland for repairs.


    I haven't even played around with any flight or space sims yet!

    I'm eager to, but just want to get a good handle on setting up & tuning racing titles before venturing into the different DOF's which flight will require.
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  8. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Yes, complete u joint with plates.
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  9. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Watchuwaitingfor?????

    Go get it!!!!

    :D
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  10. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Im not in town so if i order now it will sit in front door till i get back in 2 weeks. Don't want to risk somebody stealing it. I might order next week so it will arrive soon after I get back.

    Soon my friend, soon! This what i keep telling myself:grin
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Tonight I've spent quite a few hours with the tuning portion of the Game Engine.

    My God this is an incredible system!!!!

    The results I've been getting through tuning are more than I could have hoped for.


    I swear that this feels even better then the NLRv3 Motion Platform did.

    Mind you, their software does allow for a lot of tuning, but the way I see it is that theirs is a closed platform and the game profiles should have been tuned to the best of their abilities right out of the box.

    Obviously they weren't.

    Which makes me wonder if that crash during my run in Assetto Corsa on the NLRv3 is what killed it (most likely a power supply overload) due to their tuning?

    I'll never know, and good riddance to to it anyways!!!


    So why does this DIY mish-mash of crab-pot-puller motors, 2 JRK's, a nest of wires and a bunch of wood feel soooooo much better?????

    I dunno, but this is bliss!

    I have a feeling that I'll be pulling an all-nighter since the tuning is making each and every sim feel so incredible.

    By tuning each axis individually, I’ve realized that a couple of them were reversed...and what a difference it has made.


    It felt good before, but now it's absolutely spectacular!!! ;)



    I thought that once I had the hardware confirmed to be stable, that the software would be the crowning glory.

    So far my hunch as been correct! :cheers
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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  12. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Time to start kicking some butt!!!!

    IMG_0472.JPG


    I've finally got around to mounting the ol' Buttkicker Gamer 2 behind the seat.

    That should add nicely to the dual Dayton Audio Pucks which are mounted to the kidneys area of the seat (as well as the pedal deck).

    The BKG2 adds more low-end rumble than the pucks can produce, which is great for things such as gear change effects, collisions, sausage kerbs, etc.


    Here's the overall rig with the DIY 2DOF platform in place, and it's now pretty much complete enough to enjoy for the coming Winter months here in Western Canada.

    IMG_0483.JPG

    IMG_0485.JPG


    I'm considering this to be the prototype phase, so come Springtime I'll have enough info on what I enjoy about it and what I'd like to see improved.

    So far I've been extremely happy with the results, and now with getting into the tuning aspect of things I can see so much more potential for the overall feel of the platform.

    :cheers Cheers Folks, and thanks for all of the valuable input in helping me get to this stage.
    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  13. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Tune ...tune...tune!
    Nothing else is more important than tuning once your rig is built.
    Without tune, there is nothing.

    Tune!.png
    • Like Like x 1
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  14. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Since not all games have telemetry output for motion, tonight I've spent a few hours messing with the Joystick plug-in with a wireless XBox One gamepad.

    Wow!!!!

    After wrapping my head around it, and doing some tweaking, I'm really happy with the results.



    There are a few gamepad only games for VR, such as Redout, Gunjack, and a few others.

    Tonight has been a blast with these, and so far they work really well.



    Now I'm going to try one of my favorites, called "Vector 36".

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/346460/Vector_36/

    I usually play it with a Warthog HOTAS, but in order to quickly test it out and not have to fart around with the settings anymore I figure I'll test it out with the gamepad tonight.
    Hopefully the dev answers my plea for telemetry output and one of the resident Geniuses here may have some interest in creating a proper plug in. :popcorn



    I also have a few other joysticks, flight-sticks, etc laying around, and will test each one in time.

    I'm sure that they will all find a place within certain games with the joystick plug-in.



    I haven't had much luck with getting my Thrustmaster T300 wheel + pedals to work with the joystick plug-in, but perhaps with some more time I may be able to get it to work.

    The pedals register, a bit of the steering, and a few buttons, but it's not really usable until I can possibly figure out how to set it up correctly.

    The only reason I'd really want it is to play Wreckfest with a bit of motion, since I can't seem to get the official SimTools plug-in to work ( the dev patched the game & broke the compatibility :( ).
  15. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Hmmmmm.......


    So far the next two tests have been duds.

    Both "Vector 36" & "KartKraft" seem to require that the game itself be in focus in order to control the vehicle.

    With those two titles it appears to be an either/or situation for having the game respond to joystick inputs, or the motion platform to do its thing. :(


    Perhaps I'm overlooking something here, or it's just the nature of whichever game engine the devs have decided to use.

    Both Redout & Gunjack worked great, and neither one complained when I switched the focus over to the joystick app dialog box in order to enable motion after launching the game.


    This part of the software is all very new to me, so hopefully I'm just overlooking some small aspect of how to make everything work in concert.

    What's concerning me is that both Redout & Gunjack are older titles, which means perhaps I'll be running to this problem more often with newer ones :confused:.


    Well, the real test here would be to see if Wreckfest has the same issue, since it's one of the latest titles which has come out of Early Access on Steam and may suffer from these same problems with game/joystick focus.

    Fingers are crossed!!!

    The REAL irony here is now I'm wasting my time trying to force games to have some form of fake motion...when in fact the devs should be realizing how awesome it would be for their game to actually have motion as a selling feature.
    Wake up!!!!!!
    Both VR & Motion have killed pancake gaming...waiting you all to catch up! :popcorn
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  16. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Welp!

    Wreckfest works fine with the SimTools Joystick plug-in + an XBox One gamepad.

    Pity about it not working with the actual SimTools plug-in, but that's a 100% developer issue, not a SimTools issue.

    Bloody memory hooks!!!!!!
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  17. NightShiftNinja

    NightShiftNinja New Member

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    Nice looking rig build Kranky. As a fellow Canadian thank you for the pdf. It has put a solid number on what a rig build will actually cost me. And probably actually pushed it up on the project list.


    As for the direct drive wheel that was posted about earlier in the thread I bought one back in March and do not regret it for a second, I bought a pre built one from a European seller, after weeks/months or research the $50ish dollar extra that I paid vs sourcing the parts on my own was well worth it to have a fully assembled and tested machine.


    Where abouts in canada are you?
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  18. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    I saved $300 USD building OSW. Some of the parts must cost more there in Canada.
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  19. NightShiftNinja

    NightShiftNinja New Member

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    Yeah we get dinged pretty hard on exchange alone, and once you add duty and the wonderfully large brokerage fees that shipping companies add the price adds up really quick.
  20. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform

    You are welcome for the info, hopefully it will be of some use to you in acquiring parts if/when you decide to move ahead with your build.
    It's a lot of fun...perhaps a bit of hair-pulling at times...some head-scratching...but 100% worth it in the end!


    I'm in the Vancouver area of BC.
    Where are you?

    I've been looking into the DD wheel situation, but still cannot justify it since I still play the odd game on both the PS4/PS3, XBox One/XBox 360 as well, and the T300 handles most of those systems as well (with a DriveHub adapter for the XBox).

    Perhaps one day I'll do the upgrade, but the cost is also somewhat prohibitive, even for a DIY wheel setup.

    Cheers!