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Showroom Newb's compact 2DOF build - Moving from a commercial unit to a DIY under seat mover

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Kranky Pantz, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Deane

    Deane Old Fart

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
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  2. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform

    Well let's not put the cart before the horse here, I'm a ways off from making anything I want.

    I'm currently using the welder in its FCAW configuration, not a mig with gas one.

    Tig seems like an art form...perhaps one day.

    Luckily I do have a semi-decent shop setup in the garage, which helped immensely when building this motion platform project.
  3. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Small update.

    Today I've spent some time downloading some game plug-ins.

    I was worried that my previous game patching from using the NLRv3 would interfere with these new ones from X-Simulator, but so far so good.

    So far I've patched around 5 or so of my favorite titles, but only now just tested Project CARS 2 (I'm a HUGE Rallycross fan....I love anything in the dirt!).

    O
    M
    F
    G
    !
    !
    !

    Are you serious!?!?!?!?!?!

    This feels even BETTER than the NLRv3 did!!!!!

    And this is without any tuning, just adding the six basic DOF's in the Game Engine!


    Thank you...thank you, THANK YOU to this ENTIRE Community!!!!

    I'm literally shaking as I type this.....it's incredible!

    I can't for the life of me believe that I was capable of building this system from scratch...and I have everyone here to thank.

    No matter how insignificant you feel that your post may have been, for me at least I'm sure that it helped in more ways than one.


    Here are a couple of pic's of the (semi) finished rig, fully functional, but will be doing some clean up with the wiring, etc. sooner than later...that's if I can stop playing long enough to do so. ;)

    LOL, my little buddy decided that it was a pretty comfy seat right before I was about to sit down and test some pCARS2, 'Lil Bugger!!!!

    IMG_0396.JPG

    IMG_0388.JPG

    IMG_0390.JPG

    IMG_0393.JPG

    Oh, and if you are wondering what the white tape is for on the threaded rods between the two ball joints, it's the center point so that I know I haven't maxed out one side over the other.
    Trying to avoid a Murphy's Law situation.

    Gotta go....too many sims to go play!!!! :D

    I'll BRB with the results. :popcorn
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  4. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    OK, so I've done a bit more testing.

    Single laps on the :
    Nord
    Spa
    Red Bull Ring
    Monza Historic w/ that death loop
    Laguna (gotta love that left hand stomach-churning drop turn...gulp! :D)
    etc.

    My thoughts?

    WTH did I previously pay $4k CAD for a NLRv3 when I could have had THIS all along??????


    Who would have thought that a pair of Crab Trap Puller Motors, 2 JRK's, a pair of LED PS's, a few slabs of wood, a nest of wires + some misc nuts & bolts could have wielded such FANTASTIC results????

    Obviously, the magic comes from the software provided by the X-Simulator dev's + community.

    My hats off to you folks.

    I never would have dreamt that this project would have had the end results which I am currently experiencing.....BRAVO!!!!!!

    As stated earlier....gotta go...too many games to go and test! :popcorn
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    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  5. jharps

    jharps New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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  6. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Niceeee! How is the motors from PGsaw? does it have any backlash or can it be back driven?
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  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
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  8. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Hi & Thanks!

    The motors themselves are great and appear to be doing the job, so far no complains here.


    Yes, a tiny bit of backlash, but these are new motors so it will most likely get worse over time.


    I can actually back-drive these motors by hand if I use a good amount of force.

    Sitting in the seat and leaning back with the power off I can definitely drop the rear-end down.

    Setting the motors to "brake" rather than "coast" in the JRK Config Utility seems to correct that issue.

    I think that also just leaving the "GameEngine"" running in the background also locks the levers in their neutral position, because if I quit out of the program before exiting the seat I can start to feel the rear-end drop.

    I'm not sure it's an advisable solution though, as it may cause some extra stress on the system when doing so.


    Perhaps someone with more experience such as noorbeast can chime in on whether or not it's safe to do so when playing non-motion games.

    The other alternative is to just make a simple kickstand or use blocks and lock the seating platform in place, which is something I may do in the future.


    One of my garbage welds on a motor-lever cracked, but it was a simple fix and I'm now back up and running.

    Funny thing is, I KNEW that one side was bad, so when it gave out I wasn't even upset.

    It only took a few minutes to remove the lever, not long to repair the weld, and only a few minutes to re-install and re-align the feedback pot using the JRK Config Utility.

    THIS is why I am glad I went the DIY route...knowing EXACTLY what the problem was, how to fix it, and the re & re of the parts involved.



    The parts/cost spreadsheet is almost complete, so I'll convert it to a PDF and upload it.

    Will be doing some more game testing tonight. :D
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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  9. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Give us more feedback and videos, please!:popcorn
    Ill be going on vacation next week for two weeks. I already started buying tools and will start my build when I get back. Luckily I have friends that can weld.
    You did this, you made me do it!;):grin
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  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    You have pretty much answered your own question, if the rig is well balanced with 50:1s then in the short term SimTools will hold it fine, but for prolonged use chocks are a better option. My 60:1s can't be back driven, so I don't have that issue.
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  11. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Hey Noorbeast,
    Is 50:1 OK for this kind of application? I understand you use 60:1 as you're moving the whole rig but for a seat mover is it good enough.?

    Just want to get more opinions b4 I buy my motors.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    50:1s will work fine for a compact design, but they can be backdriven once they wear in. Even 25:1s can work, it really is a question of load and design, you can use SimCalc to get your head around the design and physics trade offs: https://www.xsimulator.net/communit...e-linear-speed-and-forces-of-your-design.270/

    I have had some pretty hefty folk try out my compact sim, so have settled on the 60:1s for both their torque and not being able to be backdriven, even when powered down:

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  13. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Here's a PDF of the of the spreadsheet I'm working on (first draft) which outlines the parts, quantities, costs, and sources.


    Hopefully this can help anyone looking to build a similar rig.

    Please keep in mind that I'm located in Canada, so you may need to make appropriate adjustments to both prices and sources for where to purchase these items.


    Whenever I update it I'll refresh this one with a newer version #, starting today at v0.1.

    Attached Files:

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  14. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform

    I've uploaded a PDF of the spreadsheet which you were interested in having a look at.

    It's about 80% complete, but seeing as how you'll be going on vacation I figured I'd put it out there for you to have a look at.

    I hope that it's of some use to you in the meantime.

    I'll be updating it with some more details, and if I come across anything else I've forgotten.


    Hey, knowing how much fun the end result is...I'll gladly take the blame. :D

    Have a great vacation, and good luck with the build, learn from my successes as well as my mistakes which I've mentioned in this thread.

    Remember, there are no stupid questions, so feel free to ask me anything which I may have left out regarding this build.


    I do plan on refreshing this rig in the Spring, most likely ditching the wooden parts once I get my welding chops down, and who knows what else I'll come up with by then.
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  15. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Here was my first roadbump with the rig, a crappy cracked weld which has since been repaired.

    IMG_0398.JPG


    I'm not the least bit surprised, as it was my first weld and was crappier than a Seagull at the warf!

    I've just spent a couple of hours on the repaired Lever, and so far so good....lots of pCARS2 Rally racing, which tends to be a bit aggressive.

    Now I'm going to test Assetto Corsa Black Cat Country....the road which killed my NLRv3 Motion Platform.

    To say the least I'm somewhat fearful, yet optimistic that THIS rig can & will handle it.

    Yeah, I know that it was probably just a glitch or freak accident that the NLRv3 died on this track, but if I run a few laps and this rig survives then I'll claim a small victory, LOL!!!

    Here we go!!!

    IMG_0408.JPG
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  16. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    THANK YOU!!!!!!!
    Thanks for taking the time to put the list together, it really helps a lot!:cheers

    Will aluminum profile tubing work on your rig? you mentioned you want to refresh later on. I like working with profile tubing as it is so modular. That's what ill be building mines on. hopefully it is strong enough.
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  17. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Thanks Noorbeast!
    I had a play with this but didn"t make sense to me. Maybe i'm doing it wrong, lol! Another quick question, is there an advantage of putting motors up front under legs or on back behind the butt?
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  18. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Both offer good design leverage and will work well, but they do affect the movement geometry slightly differently, which is where SimCalc can help you get an understanding of the different design trade offs.
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  19. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    You are welcome, and best of luck with your build.

    I believe that aluminum profile (20/20 I'm assuming) will work fine provided all of the ends are cut to fit nice & flush and the fittings are firmly attached.

    If I'm not mistaken noorbeast's rig has a high quantity of aluminum framing, with minimal welding of only some steel parts such as the seat pedestal + motor levers.

    Springtime is a long ways away, so I'm sure I'll have plenty of ideas by then...perhaps even just build an entirely new rig. :think

    When the time comes I'll consider all options.


    Last night's testing went great, and Assetto Corsa didn't break my rig......yet ;).

    It's unfortunate that I couldn't get the 32-bit version of Wreckfest to work with the game plug-in, I guess that one of the later updates broke it. :(

    I read the "how to" on possibly fixing it, but that's waaaaayyyy above my head, so perhaps I'll just use the joystick plug-in and fake it for now.

    The developers of KartKraft have stated that they'll be implementing VR + telemetry output at some point, so hopefully a plug-in can be developed for that sim.

    Tonight will be more testing of a few other titles, probably rFactor 2, RaceRoom, DiRT Rally, etc.
    • Like Like x 2
  20. FoxHound.92

    FoxHound.92 2DOF seat mover

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    Great to read you're that statisfied with your rig! :thumbs

    Are you planning to post a video of your rig in action anytime soon?

    Would be cool to see also a kind of progress in dialing it in more and more per video. ;)
    • Like Like x 1