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Showroom Newb's compact 2DOF build - Moving from a commercial unit to a DIY under seat mover

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Kranky Pantz, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Thank you!
    That makes two of us.
    I'm not sure if these forums allow or support uploading of videos though. :confused:

    Yesssssir, I completely agree!

    Especially on a day like today, as this morning I was browsing a Next Level Racing v3 Motion Platform forum on Race Dept (my ex ;)) and they were all raving about some new features (rFactor 2 curbs).
    I was, for a moment, wondering if I'd done the right thing in returning it and going this DIY route.

    Then I snapped back to reality with the realization as to why I had decided to return it (price + lack of a local service center) and got up off of my butt to go work on my DIY rig.

    Things really clicked today, and I'm happy to report that it ended up being a day of some great satisfaction.
    I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, a definate milestone. :)

    I can't thank the x-simulator community enough for providing this inspiration, and hopefully by the end of this my little rig can do the same for someone else who's considering the DIY route.

    Simply by building this I am feeling so much better that if something were to go wrong, and it needs to be fixed, then I can and should be able to fix it myself or possibly with some help from the fantastic x-sim communiy.

    Cheers! :cheers
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  2. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Excellent progress and I’m excited for you! Looking good with the build, looks clean!

    I am contemplating getting DofReality M2 seat mover or build my own. Your project is pushing me towards building my own. I started sourcing out parts and can get most of it through eBay and Amazon.

    If you don’t mind me asking, can you give me a rough estimate of what I’ll be spending if I go DIY route. I have an idea but I might be off as I think I’m missing a lot of things on my list.

    Thanks!
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    :):)

    Thank you, glad to see someone else in a similar situation as I was.

    I had decided on this over the M2, for both cost and the fact that if I bought another pre-built rig, then aside from reverse engineering it I'd be back to not knowing how it works, or worse...how to fix it.

    Perhaps you can learn from all of my mistakes, LOL!!!!



    I do plan on tallying up what my costs were, but it's still a bit early in the process.

    I'll condense it down to what the build itself costs, and not the other expenses such as tools and such, since those can and will be used elsewhere over time.

    If you can list which items you have or plan to buy, then I can probably help you fill in the blanks as to what may be missing.



    Tonight I've temporarily attached both levers to the motors in order to do a real-world test with Live For Speed.

    Pay no attention to the driving, as I was simply trying to see the motion for different scenarios such as curbs, rumble strips, grass, sliding, etc.

    For some reason I get a feedback disconnect/motor latching error on the right-side motor (see the 1:37 mark). The motor latching part is due to the safety's in place to protect the pots, but the feedback disconnect is my main concern at the moment.

    I'm not sure why since the JRK Config settings are the same for both sides, plus I've tried two different pots as well.

    One thing I do know is that my settings were just enough to get it going, so most likely way off from what they should be for perfect functionality. With some more research and tweaking I'm confident that it'll all fall into place eventually.

    Will investigate tomorrow, after I put the electronics into their enclosure and tidy things up, etc.

    Who knows, maybe it'll magically fix itself after I do a full reset of the electronics and software;)
    Sometimes you've just gotta reboot 'n start over.
    For now, I'm just glad to see it functioning and somewhat playing nicely with SimTools + The LFS demo.
    I'm not really sure at what point my rig would qualify for a DIY license, but once it does I'll immediately do some testing on all of the more modern sims and also upgrade to the Pro license.

    This is so much more satisfying than blindly buying an off-the-shelf system.

    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  4. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Hey Kranky Pants,

    Thanks for having the time to response and answer my questions!

    Parts I looked at so far:

    Motor
    12V 180W worm gear motor 50:1 (same as yours) $260
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/GEAR-MOTOR...5-80RPM-50-1/371596157992?hash=item5684db6428
    OR
    Motion Dynamics 12V 200W with 60:1 gear (if i need more torque) $350- $360 USD
    https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/1...ve-geared-motor-200w-21-256-rpm-7.5-45nm.html

    Controller
    2 JRK 12v12 (Amazon) $200
    OR
    2 G2 18x19 (Same as you. Didnt know about this till I looked at your build so Thank You!) $200
    https://www.pololu.com/product/3146

    Power supply
    2 12v 500W 40A (Amazon) $60

    Pots
    I still need to research which is good for motion sim

    Hardware
    U joint (junk yard maybe)
    ball joints
    Rods
    screws, bolts, nuts and washers
    mounting brackets and levers
    (Haven't priced these yet as i'm sure i can get it at my local hardware store)

    Tools
    Welder
    drill press

    I have most of the main components listed and just need to source the small stuff.

    I can get DofReality M2 for $999 shipped. I believe they use Audrino and Moto Shield on theirs but don’t know the specs of their motors.

    Your build is looking good and hopefully you can resolve your issue with one of your motors. I agree, it is satisfying to build your own. I was going to purchase a DD wheel from Sim racing bay but decided to build my own. Sourced the parts out and put it all together. Now i know the ins and outs of simucube DD wheels and can easily fix it if needed.

    Thanks again for your time!
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  5. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    It turns out that the feedback disconnect error/motor latching on the right-side was due to an optional setting I had enabled in the JRK Config program.
    Once I disabled it the problem was solved, and I can now turn lap after lap in Live For Speed without any errors or motor latching...yay!!!!!! :)

    This is the description in the JRK manual for that optional setting:

    "The “Detect disconnect with power pin (AUX)” option, which is only available when the “Feedback mode” is set to “Analog voltage”, causes the Jrk to drive the AUX pin low once per PID period after measuring FBA. If the voltage on the FBA pin does not drop by at least a factor of two while AUX is low, then the Jrk reports a “Feedback disconnect” error (if that error is enabled). The AUX pin drives high at other times."

    So with that issue out of the way today I am disassembling the axles and drilling the holes for their locking pins, then painting them.

    After reassembling them I'll be positioning the seat-post and connecting the ball-joints & rods to the motor levers & seat platform.

    Then away we go!!!!! :thumbs

    watchumacallit
    I've had a look at your list, and will soon be going over my build to tally up the parts + costs.
    I'll post that info back here shortly.
    You say you built your own DD wheel....impressive.....and now I'm interested....dammit!!!!!
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Building DD wheel is not as complicated as what you are doing. I wouldn't even consider it building but just putting parts together, LOL!

    Please post more pics of your progress so I can learn from you, Hehe! :thumbs.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  7. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Today I'm doing some general clean-up of the motion platform such as painting the levers/arms, and prepping to mount the seat pedestal & connecting rods.

    I'd like to thank the X-Sim Team for granting me a DIY licence, and for the extremely quick turnaround in doing so. :cheers


    Testing with Live For Speed made me realize that I should have been playing it more than I had been prior to this project.
    Including that profile for testing was a brilliant idea from the X-Sim Team, Bravo! :thumbs
    I can't wait to see my rig in motion with all of the other racing & flight sims currently in my games library!!!

    All of this on the same day as the Steam Halloween Sale...so as I wait for the paint to dry I'll just browse for games which support motion platforms, LOL!!!!

    Funny enough, I think I already have most if not all of them. ;)
    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  8. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Really????

    Hmmmm...now I'm even MORE interested.

    Any chance you could put a list with pricing as well?

    Just use whatever your costs in your local currency is and I'll convert it to CAD.


    I'm getting the list together now on what my actual costs were for this project.

    I'll...Be...Back...

    [​IMG]
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    Here's the new 3D printed box for the electronics, which is a lot more suitable than using the dual setup I had originally planned (the two silver boxes on either side of the new larger black one).

    It has side vents for allowing warm air to escape, and the top mounted fans should bring in cooler air.

    The PCB stand-offs are nylon ones which are used for building RC Racing Quadcopters.

    Luckily I have a box of various length ones on hand and found the perfect height for these mini PCB's.


    IMG_0308.JPG


    These Noctua fans are absolutely dead silent, rare for smaller fans which usually make a high-pitched whine.


    IMG_0311.JPG


    Dual 40mm fans for some added cooling.


    IMG_0312.JPG


    Still waiting for the paint to dry on the axles/levers before attaching them to the motors.

    Man....the anticipation of assembling this is....well....like watching paint dry. ;)

    In the meantime I'll start drawing up that list outlining the parts + costs.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Sure, I followed Simucube Wiki for building DD. https://granitedevices.com/wiki/SimuCUBE

    Parts list:

    Motor
    You can order direct from Mige by e mailing Liza Zahn here: hzmgdjzhan@gmail.com
    AC Servo motor Mige 130ST-M10010 with cables and new Biss- C encoder $338 shipped USD
    (optional Mige 130ST-M15015 for 30Nm instead of 20Nm) It Will cost more. 20Nm is plenty enough for me. If you go this route the cables are pre wired with correct pin layout.

    Simucube and ioni pro Board
    https://granitedevices.com/store/ap...e-feedback-controller-board.html?options=cart €169.00
    https://granitedevices.com/store/ap...oni-pro-servo-stepper-drive.html?options=cart €179.00
    https://granitedevices.com/store/ap...-pro-hc-servo-stepper-drive.html?options=cart (For 30Nm motor) €199.00
    (Optional case you can buy from Granite or build your own case)

    Mounting bracket and clamping set

    https://www.ascher-racing.com/shop/mige-mounting-bracket/ 59.00 €
    https://www.ascher-racing.com/shop/clamping-set/ 24.00 €

    Power supply

    https://www.ebay.com/i/252404264715?chn=ps $82 +$26 shipping USD
    https://www.ebay.com/i/253949645007?chn=ps (For 30Nm motor) $109.99 + 24.18 shipping USD
    You can probably find these somewhere else cheaper as it is a industry standard power supply.

    E- Stop
    Amazon $10.69 USD

    Wheel and Button box

    Too many options to list but anything with a 70mm bolt pattern will work. Range from $100- $1000 USD

    Thats it! put everything together and follow wiki with setup and you're good to go! Simple. Once you go direct drive you wont want to go back. It's not about the power either as I only use mine at 40%. Its the detail you get from the wheel that is really good.
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  11. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    watchumacallit

    I've been a bit delayed on that parts/cost list due to making progress on my build, it's almost done!
    Did a test fit of it in the rig last night, and everything went very well.
    I'll be eliminating the seat-slider portion in order to reduce the overall seat height by 2", and may later use it on the steering wheel deck in order to be able to adjust the wheel for & aft.


    IMG_0319.JPG

    IMG_0320.JPG

    IMG_0328.JPG

    I should be able to actually sit in it and use it tonight!


    Now that I know the complete parts list I'll be getting that together during my down time today.
    Hopefully I've provided enough pic's to serve as a build diary/assembly manual for anyone wishing to go with this style of 2dof motion platform.


    Here are the painted axles + levers, now dry and installed on the motors.
    They are 12mm bolts, 14cm (5 1/2") in length, nuts welded on either side of the lever, and then finished off with automotive putty to to cover & seal the nuts (for purely cosmetic reasons).

    IMG_0318.JPG

    IMG_0317.JPG
    • Like Like x 4
  12. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Sweet! Let us know how it feels and compare to NLR V3!
  13. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I will.


    Thank you for that detailed parts list and info on building a DD wheel, I missed commenting on it when I made my earlier post (I think that exhaustion is setting in).

    I may indeed go that DIY DD Wheel route if I ever decide to ditch my Thrustmaster system.

    I do still use game consoles for the odd title, and there may be compatibility issues, I don't even think the DriveHub supports open-source DD wheels.

    Will definitely keep it in mind when it's time for an upgrade, if even just the wheel and I keep everything else.

    All of that info is plenty for me to research, so thanks again! :cheers


    This morning I've done a partial disassembly of the motion platform, and mounted it into what should be it's new home. :D

    3/8" bolts in each of the 4 corners, and 4 for the base of the seat-post. All 8 bolts go through both the motion platform and the base of the rig...that should keep it in place.

    Since it's designed to be an an-in-one unit, I could even technically take it out to use elsewhere, or even on someone else's rig if they wanted to try out a seat mover.

    Much like the design of the NLRv3 & DOFreality M2, this was my intention from the beginning, to be able to use it in again any rig or future rigs I may build.


    I've also eliminated the seat slider in order to make it a lower profile and a better seating position to match the wheel height.

    I'm waiting for the paint to dry (again...twiddling my thumbs) on the seat-side rod brackets, so in the meantime here are a few more pic's of it with the seat platform removed.

    As you can see, I still need to trim the wiring back now that I've decided on the final design, but it's not in the path of any moving parts so for now I can leave it as is for further testing.


    IMG_0337.JPG

    IMG_0335.JPG


    As I tally up the parts/cost for this build I'm also figuring out what can be returned to the hardware store.

    I've definitely over-bought on a few items, either too many of, not used, or poor quality (such as crappy broken drill-bits :mad:).


    Real-world testing begins tonight. :popcorn
    • Like Like x 3
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    That is when the real fun begins.

    Great to see it is all coming together in such a neat package that meets your specific needs :thumbs
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. Watchumacallit

    Watchumacallit Member

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    Awesome! I really like your design. I like the compact under seat design. Hope everything goes well in testing, good luck!:thumbs
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. bbb8cd

    bbb8cd New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Looking great! Your build is giving me inspiration (and good ideas) to get mine going - I have most parts but just need to start building! Definitely going with compact design.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    I'm happy to report back that so far testing has been going absolutely fantastic.

    Even with just basic un-tweaked settings in Live For Speed ( Sway=60% / Surge= 60% / Heave=30% ) it's feeling awesome. much like the NLRv3 did.

    Now I'm reading up on the software, motion profiles, best settings, and how to get the most out of each title.

    At some point soon I'll get some other plug-ins and test out some of my favorite titles which I had some prior experience with when using the NLRv3 motion platform.


    After the first night of testing I realized that I was seated just a bit too far away from my wheel + gear shifter.

    I was considering re-using the seat slider which I had removed, and re-purposing it on the wheel deck...but soon realized that solution wouldn't help with the shifters being too far away.

    Rather than moving the entire motion platform forward, I was able to simply unbolt the seat and move it forward by about 3", just enough to get me closer to the other components.
    This also provided a better overall COG, so it was a win-win situation.

    My pedals are already mounted on a slider system, so that wasn't an issue.


    For now I'm just gathering up all of the left over parts, figuring out which unused items I should either keep or return, and putting the tools away (other than ones I'll need for adjusting & tweaking).

    I'm also about 50% of the way through compiling a spreadsheet with all of the important info & costs on this build, and will upload it ASAP.

    Hopefully that will shed some light on the components involved, and perhaps aid anyone who's interested in making a similar style of motion platform.

    I'll upload some new pic's soon.


    Thanks to all here and the X-Simulator Community in general for all of the ideas, feedback, and help in making this project happen all of the way from conception to completion.

    Three Cheers!!!! :cheers :cheers :cheers
    • Winner Winner x 1
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  18. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Awesome job, it is always a mixture of satisfaction and relief to get your own rig up and running, with plenty of tweaking and refining to come :thumbs

    We all get so much from the vibrant community here, and that results in a huge array of innovative projects, solutions and ideas.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Kranky Pantz

    Kranky Pantz Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Thanks noorbeast!

    That means a lot coming from you, especially since your rig was the one which got me interested in motion platforms a couple of years ago, long before joining the community.

    So much so that due to the professional fit & finish of it I was somewhat intimidated and figured it's far too complicated for me to attempt.

    That's why I waited so long, then bought the NLRv3 platform as an easy solution (on sale for $4k CAD after taxes....gulp!) and figured I'd be done...'til it died just over a month later!


    Re-visiting the idea of a DIY 2dof motion platform is what brought me back here, and I'm truly glad it worked out this way.

    It's hard to believe that it has only been since Sept 9th that I even thought about building my own rig, and joined the X-Simulator community that day.

    The wealth of information here is staggering, but usually well explained and immensely helpful.

    I still feel as though I'm just scratching the surface, and am shocked that I had a functioning rig by Oct 31st, roughly 7 weeks after it was just a glimmer in my eye, LOL!!!!


    With the rig mostly done, aside from any future modifications, I'm thinking that learning the software side of all of this is now phase two.

    Thanks for all of your encouragement, and hopefully this thread can help others out in some way...and it's not done, I'm just getting started!!! hug:
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Deane

    Deane Old Fart

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    Now that you have your own mig you can make all sorts of stuff.
    A tig is also a good investment and not overly expensive for a DC Inverter model for fine welding of thin material and things that a mig just compare with
    in terms of weld quality , strength and finish.
    I had an AC/DC tig for doing turbo manifolds, intercoolers and plumbing and exhaust systems and that is where a tig shines.
    Now all you need is a fully equipped machine shop to go with it :thumbs :cheers
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1