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Newbie advice

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by X71, Mar 30, 2015.

  1. bsft

    bsft

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    Are you still on the AC motor idea?
  2. X71

    X71 New Member

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    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, 6DOF
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree with @bsft, don't mount the screen on the frame, it will be too much weight with the peripherals and yourself, particularly when you are planning to go VR in the future anyway.

    You can have a look at my sim to get an idea of the movement you could expect: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/dx-racer-compact-simulator.5866/

    It would need to be carefully balanced. If it is a compact design it would be best to have the connecting point as high and as far forward as possible, for the maximum leverage, I am increasing that on my sim. The max CTC on the motor arm would be 40mm, though depending on design you may have to reduce that further, given your own weight and peripheral layout.

    I use a projector and VR, though also plan using an adjustable static screen arm which will be floor mounted as part of a pending case mod, so a screen can be swung in when needed and pushed out when not (there are plenty of cheaper options than these): http://www.ergotron.com/Products/DeskMounts/tabid/71/Default.aspx

    For motors use the 60:1 version of these, number 15 on the chart further down the page: https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/1...ve-geared-motor-200w-21-256-rpm-7.5-45nm.html
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    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  4. bsft

    bsft

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    Ok, I take it you are in Victoria Australia?
    DC motors will do it, but as said, screen static and not attached to the frame. It can be done but even with balancing the extra weight takes away finer responses of motion. Try not to get a seat that weighs more than 10kg. The less weight the better.
    You would need to nut out a design really so we can advise further.
    If you are in Australia, look up this bloke
    https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/worm-drive-motor-12v-24v-200w-180-rpm-20nm-torque.html , ask him about extra cost of 60:1 boxes
    Brackets to suit the motors
    https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/motor-mounting-brackets/
    Dave.
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  5. X71

    X71 New Member

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    Yep, live in AUS, VIC

    Thanks so much for your help @bsft and @noorbeast, and everyone else.

    You've all actually made a lot of this more feasible, in my head anyway, now to planning and drawing ;)
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  6. X71

    X71 New Member

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    What would be the advantage (if any) in using AC motors?
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    You could use more powerful AC motors but at greater cost and with more care needed regarding the potential dangers of 240V.
  8. X71

    X71 New Member

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    @noorbeast ... Ah I see, its all about trade off's then ;)

    PM sent to you noorbeast.
  9. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys ... nice comparisons which I may add something ...
    @X71 ... I guess your main question is about the relation between : motors classifications , there related motion control technology that we can offer you here , the needed output power (torque & speed) at the mechanical end point ... all that related to your budget and what you can " DIY " ... That may summarize what you need .
    MOTOR TYPES.JPG

    my point is you can notice that universal motors (which runs on AC like blenders or angular grinder ) are listed under the DC motors ... a powerful geared motors like this can be found and used with screw ball and linear bearings .

    tumblr_nzpvooBQb21ul2d48o1_400.gif
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    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  10. X71

    X71 New Member

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    @speedy ... thanks for the advice and chart. I'm going to follow noorbeast's build to guide me as it fits in with what I had pictured doing in my mind.

    My only experience so far has been to build a static cockpit which I enjoyed immensely, but I'm a "Monkey See, Monkey Do" kind of person so with this being my first attempt at building a motion simulator there's no point in reinventing the wheel so to speak.

    I'm just thankful that a site like this exists with all you fine folk to provide advice :)

    Edit: special shout out to bsft too for his advice.
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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  11. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    BTW DC motors can save your live...
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  12. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Best advantage is : That would minimizing overall power consumption and maximizing the device output power speed/torque so coefficient is near 1:0.9 ...

    DC is the basic form of "Electricity" since it was discovered and the raw material generated into any generator windings now ... ( Escaping some details here to keep it simple ) it is converted instantly to AC ...
    which we use daily/safely in all home appliances :) ...

    Safety is very important for both DC/AC techniques as they both can cause fire and many other hazardous dangers ... And when some one clearly "Newbie" asks what should I use for motor ? ... the expected answer will take in consideration your DIY ability and the simplest choices of all related next motion control boards and their prices and how many members can provide you with a wide variety of good support on the mechanical and electrical side of the equation ...

    That what makes DC is preferred to be used for Newbies and any low budget simple typical project ...

    We all used DC "Me :) too" to make things simple in our first step simulators "Ground floor" ... but if you want to go really wild ... Take the Elevator with AC motors "Pure heave force" to go on top of the www.xsimulator.net building ...

    keep up the good work :thumbs ... and improve what you can DIY more .
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    Last edited: Apr 6, 2015
  13. My.stAr

    My.stAr Active Member

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    sorry for digging out an old thread, but since it's linked in the FAQ i thought i would be the best place to ask:D

    so, why are AC motors better? They are more efficient, ok, but you can take stronger motors.
    Are AC motors faster? Can they change the direction faster?
  14. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    AC and DC motors have their advantages and disadvantage - see google. Although for us the actual performance of AC to DC is really not that much difference - I use to work in a dockyard many years ago as a electrician and they used DC motors there to run everything including lathes the size of a multi-story houses. It's just that nowdays once you go big, it just makes sense and is easier/more efficient/less maintenance to use AC motors. Good quality large AC motors/gearboxes/inverter setups are readily available (no so for DC), although not cheap and you would likely have to install a stand alone switchboard in your house to run it all Eg the mains coming into my old house could not even support a big AC sim - so its was never an option. On saying all that, for DIY sim builders like us there's still allot of advantages to using DC - As long as you keep your rig light and limit your motors to say under 500 Watts, a DC setup can be safe, reasonably cheap and simple to build and control. For a self supporting rig (6DOF etc) its imperative to keep the moving parts of the rig light (a well designed seat mover would also be light) . Inertia is not your friend and is often forgotten about by many who design/build a DIY sim:).
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  15. OZHEAT

    OZHEAT Member

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    l agree with ya there seattime, the other thing that seems to ignored is gravity.
    If a dc motor is used in industry it tends to be higher voltage 24v ~ 120.
    They have very little use for low voltage 12v high current when it is easier to deal with high voltage and lower currents.
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