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Newbie advice

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by X71, Mar 30, 2015.

  1. X71

    X71 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, 6DOF
    Hello All,

    First time poster :)

    I have been contemplating building a motion simulator for a long time and I'm thinking I'm at the stage where I can start looking at actually building one. I've seen many designs on YouTube and here but I guess I'm still lost in terms of a picking a starting point.

    The main application will be for flight simulators, and mainly DCS, and I'd be aiming to get something close to this ...

    [MEDIA][/MEDIA]

    I've been doing a bit of research in to the actual devices to provide the motion (stepper motors and actuators) as I'm assuming these would be THE most expensive components. But what should I be looking at? How powerful do these things (motors / actuators ) need to be, how expensive are they? Is it wise to source these things from wreckers / 2nd hand dealers?

    Any advise / help would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. bsft

    bsft

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    video has been deleted
  4. X71

    X71 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, 6DOF
    How about now? The site says I can't post links.
  5. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yes the video works now.

    As a rule of thumb larger movements can suit flight but are not so good for racing.

    My personal view is that the general idea behind such large movements is that they are trying to recreate G-forces, which outside a centrafuse is always an approximation. Motion simulation is a 'mind trick' and I consider the fidelity of haptic motion cues more important than gross axis movement.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  6. bsft

    bsft

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    for a flight sim, if you planned to build one like in the video, lots of money needed. I recall @riton was building one. I suspect he would be up over $5k for cost of parts by now, but I may be wrong.
    Lots of custom bits, AC motors, very sturdy construction.
    You may be better looking at a sim like @noorbeast 2 DOF, cheaper and will do the job, more importantly, if you use JRKS and 60:1 boxes on the motors, you can set and save 2 feedback settings so the motors swing big for flight and short for race. That and you could tune the motors in the JRK utility as well for either. Just load up the settings and off you go.
  7. eightbit

    eightbit Active Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Ac motors seem to be the way for a reliable rig, basically customise to become a huge servo. Actuators are becoming fast and strong enough to be an awesome rig but still very xpensive. I've personally aimed at a stewart platform and being on a farm rig up the ac to be servo but yeah in about the 5k budget I for see ( just for motors.) then second build will be a sp using steppers. When I can get the maths correct!
  8. eightbit

    eightbit Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Lol welcome! Here at x-simulator. Net you shall find all the beautiful knowledge you will need to deliver your dream rig :) patience and research and prototype are the elements you just need to mix in. Welcome again and enjoy!
  9. bsft

    bsft

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    depends on the rig you want to build, if its like the one in the video, then AC motors.
    Or if you start with balanced 2 DOF, DC motors, of which are very reliable and a lot less cost for smaller rigs than AC motors.
  10. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    @cthiggin or @speedy may be able to give a cost guestmates, based on their experience with AC rigs.
  11. riton

    riton Active Member

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    for a project like mine, which is a lowcost project by its mechanical design and choice of AC motor takes about € 1,000 per axis
    Low cost but high performance, power and speed.
    lower the price, is to make a bad simulator.
    1000 € per axis
    mechanical part, frame included,
    it is a minimum.
    I do not count the design and build time or even machines, saw drills ....

    it is therefore € 4,000 minimum 4DOF.
    it must be nuanced!
    what is the price of a Dynamice Force or the Czech simulator?
    25,000 minimum for the Czech it seems, and 100 000
    Force Dynamics
    what is your dream?
    mine is Force Dynamics!
    but I would never € 100,000
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  12. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Hi fellows,
    My frame (top bottom platform) w/o diamondplate covering, WITH 3 - 1hp Motors / 3- 60:1 Gearheads (just horses) came in approximately 1600.00 US -
    I was able to source top quality motors (inverter duty 3-Phase) and the Boston Gearheads, ALL on eBay, all new...........took me about a year to source all of these though.

    There are other countless things that I needed - new Mig Welder, drill bits, saw blades, grinder discs, well, just a LOT to source to "get the job done"...

    357.00 for compression spring (custom made to my specs) - U-joint, steel plates, VFD's x 3 and on and on and on....and so many we don't think about or "all of a sudden" need this or that.

    Summary: Being 97% finished at this point (just need two Opt/Pcb boards for my electronics and I'll be 100% finished) - the finished product w/ RS1 - Logitech Z906 Speaker Sys/ Buttkicker Gamer II,
    T500 RS, 42" Samsung, 4 pt. harness, well, New PC Build (1900.00), I am "all in" at 5900.00 US and some change.

    Very happy with my build............

    cthiggin
    • Like Like x 1
  13. bsft

    bsft

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    True @riton , cheaper or smaller AC motors would affect performance on an AC sim. Good point
  14. X71

    X71 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Wow, thanks for all the info everyone, very helpful.

    I certainly don't intend on rushing this and I'm looking to build a scaled down model first.

    With regards to starting I figure its best to KISS, so I think a simple platform might suit ... see attached sketch I quickly made.
    WP_20150331_09_29_00_Pro.jpg
  15. bsft

    bsft

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    So are you going to use AC or DC motors?
  16. X71

    X71 New Member

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    Well that's what I'm hoping you guys could advise me on. Fitting with your suggestions bsft I would say DC motors would suit that design.

    Just loosely thinking here but I would say the platform would need to support anywhere between 150kg to 170kg. I might just buy a PAGNIAN simulation frame and bolt it on top. I've also just noticed they have an add-on motion platform similar to what I've drawn for about $3k AUD ... :p

    I'd be hoping I could build one cheaper than that.
  17. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    DC with 60:1 would move it, though connecting above the COG instead of level with it would be better.
  18. bsft

    bsft

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    Balanced 2 DOF without screens on it feasible with 200 watt DC motors 60:1 gearboxes on then and JRK or Arduino - MM drivers.
    But are you looking at full frame or seat mover?
    150-170kg, just how much do you weigh?
    Pagnian seat mover motion yes , about $3k, will suit up to 150kg I am told
    This design with wider seat and frame to suit using 60:1 boxes on motors not 25:1, would suit up to 150kg driver. would cost about $900 in parts as seen in photo
    2014-03-21 16.43.58.jpg

    EDIT, as @noorbeast says, connect motors at shoulders at rear for seat mover or full frame, then again, if you do not weigh too much, like under 100kg, a full frame/desk racer motor mount design like noorbeasts will do ,or for for seat mover on its own, shoulder mount at rear ot desk racer mount.
  19. X71

    X71 New Member

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    Thanks guys.

    I weigh 109kg, (but loosing it now that I'm on fitness program ;) )

    I plan to have a 34" LG monitor (34UM95 IPS) attached but will mainly be using a VR headset when they're available on release.

    Other peripherals are the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Saitek rudder pedals and a stand for the mouse and keyboard.
  20. bsft

    bsft

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    Loose the screen and keep it static, balance it for you without screen with peripherals included for weigh balance.
    @noorbeast , you can advise further as you have all the goodies on yours
  21. X71

    X71 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yeah I was thinking that the seat should be attached above the COG, so your suggestions confirm my thoughts.

    So for the motors, is there any particular brand / model I should look for? Where to get them in Victoria? Can these be sourced from old washing machines? ;)