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New to the community 2DOF seat mover (1st build)

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by navarrma, Dec 14, 2013.

  1. navarrma

    navarrma Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    First off i'd like to thank earobbie and bsft for their speedy responses and obvious interest in helping out with my first build from their responses on the intro thread :cheers

    I'm looking to build a seat mover -I think from what i'm hearing- and want to do it right with nice worm gear motors. I just ordered a pair of racing seats from ebay (soooo cheappppp) so I can begin a frame build. I have substantial electronics experience (US Navy Electronics Technician) but nothing in the control and motion arena so i'm learning as I go. I'm a skilled fabricator with access to a 15,000 ft^2 (not a typo) hackerspace with all of the tools and equipment necessary for much more substantial builds so i'm not foreseeing any limitations except my own lack of knowledge on the subject.

    I have a G27 I just bought myself as a "getting out of the service gift to myself" and immediately began planning to upgrade my setup which i'm going to do as quickly as possible...

    My biggest questions are those of sourcing parts, and the control systems, as well as any rough guidelines or pitfalls I should be aware of in my chassis build (I feel like it should be straightforward...and that usually means i'm being naive).

    I need a good purchase list. I'm shooting for an easy first build to gain confidence and get my feet wet controlling motors that are bigger than an RC cars.

    Please let me know what you all ("y'all" where i'm from) think. Thanks!

    -Matt
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  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. bsft

    bsft

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    Good on ya!
    We just happened to be online,
    Rob answered your question fairly well with a seat mover build and I put in info on JRK link http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/are-you-a-new-member-introduce-here.1737/page-33
    As said, cannot go past JRKS for simplicity and ease of setup. I am code hopeless and would be lost without JRK.
    Motors, have a dig on ebay for 12v 200 watt motor , i dunno of a link, maybe another member has one, give it a day or so.
    Heres link to Robs build http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/eao-robbies-static-sim-to-seat-mover-conversion.4650/
    Heres link to my build. http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/diy-2dof-seat-mover-with-big-motors.4683/
    Hopefully that helps a bit. Id better get off this damn pc and actually do something constructive.
    Cheers, Dave.
  4. bsft

    bsft

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    Comparisons between simulators. Other people will of course differ with this comparison, so please add your thoughts.

    First things to consider, angle of actual swing of the frames and the profile written. Also, its a brain trick.
    If you want a big swinging frame, go hard, the biggest swing I have had is 14 deg total, but others have frames up to 25 deg. And thats for race, not just flight.
    Both frames use same motors and JRK control boards

    Seat mover with shoulder mounted motors.
    Generally ,a seat mover can give more precise motion detail as it has less over all weight to move than a full frame. However, too much movement can make it hard to hang onto the wheel or mash the juice pedal. And yes, the wheel and pedals are stationary, so proper placement to allow you being pulled away and pushed around has to be taken into consideration. But as said, it does give you the feeling of being moved around in a seat in a vehicle, even with a race seat to hold you in more. You tend to shift your body around to compensate for movement and also what your brain thinks you are moving like. You can still feel pitch and roll of track, but maybe a bit less as legs are still.
    Some SCN seat movers on videos have HEAPS of throw. It might look like fun, but can be too much and eventually make it tiring to drive the game.
    As mine is DIY and has 70mm travel of motor lever and at 600mm from the pivot , total angle is 6.5 degrees. Not much, but then again, too much may make it too hard. Other people will of course differ with this comparison.
    I had a seat mover of 12.5 degrees at one stage, so with a good profile, it was nice, but a harsh profile and WHOA! Fun but hard to hang on.

    Full frame with motors mounted near feet
    Full frames allow you , wheel and pedals to move with you. You still get sensation of being pulled, pushed around from pedals and wheels. Obviously not as much as a seat mover, but still there. You tend to feel a bit more of the motion of roll and pitch , when your whole body is getting moved around, I find.
    Seat mover can lose this a bit, but not really much.
    Motors mounted at feet on the frame in question, may take away some of the finer vibration and motion that shoulder mount gives, but then again, shoulder mounting motors would return that finer detail due to higher leverage point. It may lessen a bit due to the fact that a full frame requires a bit more power to move. But hey, just change the profile and increase the motor power a bit more.
    Although, I must say, once again, a good profile can give the same sensation in motion, be it from a different spot. Feet or knees instead of shoulders.
    Full frame is about 8 deg total swing. May not sound like much considering 4 deg from centre, but again, throw a decent profile in it and you feel like you are moving a lot more.

    Summary
    After a while I get the same sort of feeling from both my frames, even though they are different in design.
    In your choice of motion sim build, It will come down to watching videos of other frames, opportunity to play on sims when they are around to do so. Taking a look at pics, seeing what takes your fancy. Heck, even a seat mover can be converted to full frame later, add the extra bit, move pivot, and off you go. 2 seat movers I have sold, the owners have since converted them to full frames, their choice of course. They enjoy both frames they tell me.
    I have only played on a $40,000 VRX dbox with 3 screens, impressive rig, but motion was lousy I though. Although others whom have such rigs wind it up and get great results. Mind you, I dont have that sort of money to get one.
    I have been through 10 different 2DOF designs, starting with joyrider design with about 9-10 deg total swing with screen on it. Good fun, but I found it a bit difficult to focus ona screen moving with you. But thats just me.
    Then I moved onto development of more compact designs, with motors under rear, at knees, out the side, shoulder mount, at feet. Still 2DOF. Screen static.
    So thats how I go here. Each frame design is a new learn to drive experience I find. Nothing makes me go faster I think. I am slow regardless.
    I may have missed something and please add your thoughts as well. Its always good to compare notes.
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  5. bsft

    bsft

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    JRK limitations
    Limitations of JRKS? 12-15v only.
    14v at 30 -35 amps continuous all day with heatsink and cooling restricts it to a 250 watt motor max as stall wattage is WAY higher than rated. Motors run at stall current, not rated. My motors are rated 200 watts but get pushed to 520 watts no probs.
    So big worm gears or 12v 900kg rated boat winch motors.
    If you are looking at full frame, look here http://www.xsimulator.net/community...-pit-to-steel-motion-rig-24v-big-motors.4603/ he ended up using 12v boat winch motor and jrks for full frame.
    better to get more advice from others.
  6. bsft

    bsft

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    I missed a bit. Motor placement, shoulder mount is by far the best spot, but I have been through 10 designs with motors at lower points that work. One design that works well is this http://www.xsimulator.net/community...placement-sim-updated-photos-19-11-2013.3822/ , but motors are too narrow in the frame, but still move heaps.
    As far as you can away from pivot of well above centre of gravity is good.
    If you have a design in mind, post it and we can advise.
    Cheers, Dave.
  7. navarrma

    navarrma Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Awesome. I just ordered a JRKS from that link. I'm looking at motors right now...does anyone know how quickly the shipping to US from motiondynamics is?
  8. bsft

    bsft

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    As in Australia? Ask him
  9. navarrma

    navarrma Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    OUCH! 170 bucks to ship two motors to the states.......nooooo can do. I need to find a replacement
  10. bsft

    bsft

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    have an ebay search, or wait a day or two for one of the other members to find a link.
  11. navarrma

    navarrma Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
  12. bsft

    bsft

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  13. bsft

    bsft

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  14. navarrma

    navarrma Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
  15. bsft

    bsft

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    Best not, they are 24v and will run slow with 12v, look for 12v motors.
    JRKS do not run 24v, only max 14v.
  16. navarrma

    navarrma Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Ah, gotcha. Okay, well i'm searching i'm sure i can find something locally. Seem to be lots of distributors in the area.
  17. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Cools sounds like you got the idea quickly.
    On the design of a frame I could send you the build drawings for my seat mover, as I havent found time to publish my sim design and build. I do have full fab drawings of frames. It is designed so you can replace a seat in a std static frame like a playseat to turn it into a motion rig. Let me know if you should require them to give you a good idea where to go in a frame build, pretty simple but can help.
  18. navarrma

    navarrma Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    I would love your input and specs (and anyone else's) from their own builds. I really appreciate it

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
  19. navarrma

    navarrma Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Alright fellas, which of these options seem promising:
    the torque specs on both seem low, but the first one has hardened steel gearing...which sounds good....but what do I know. The torque specs are low on both of them in comparison to the motiondynamics units but im not sure. Let me know what you think.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/179-RPM-12-...784?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f222d25c8


    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Rig...376?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53fd286860

    I think that my better question might be...which specifications am I really looking for. So far i've been trying to match specs of the motiondynamics units but what values are actually important to my motor sourcing quest? Do I need high rpm, high torque, power, etc....
  20. bsft

    bsft

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    1st one looks ok, amps rated at 12 so stall should be near 30-35 amps, speed of shaft is good.

    2nd set are off a wheelchair, but no real specs after that. But 300 rpm is nice and fast and the JRK can slow it a bit. 20 amps is rated, and stall could be higer, but hard to say until its setup and you are working on a motion profile.
    The JRKS will handle both though.
    Either are ok.
  21. bsft

    bsft

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    I dont have exact specs, but Rob has offered to supply you some drawings, PM him.