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new simulator : JoyRide

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by riton, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. riton

    riton Active Member

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    i found a new website:
    http://joyridesimulators.com/
    youtube vidéo:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGiuKdOMbyo

    in page product/software , we can see X-Sim 2.0 compatible with the supplied plugin
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. aikuo60

    aikuo60 New Member

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    I would see a video! if it's speed is accurated or not.

    There is 60 games compatible! I think it's a big enterprise behind this, like logitech.
  4. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    I agree with aikuo60, let's see a video of it in action so that we can at least get a feel for what it might be capable of. The Youtube video linked to is nothing more than an animated brochure. Let's see it 'in action', let's see what price it is.
  5. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    I agree. Even the pictures are from a rendered 3D model. It looks like a decent design, but there is not enough information to say anything about it.

    Let's see some real videos and the pricing!
  6. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    Well, not looking too great so far. They haven't yet responded to either of two emails, sent via the Contacts section of their web site, the first sent 24 hours ago. Email sent to the address given on their web site (info@joyridesimulators.com) is 'bounced' with an Unknown User error.

    No pricing, no further information, no video links, no contact.

    If they want to sell Joyride units then they will need to do much better than this !!


    NOTE: just a quick update - another 24 hours and still zero response
  7. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    They might be a little bit ahead of themselves and still setting up the business, but at least their main email accounts should be working properly!

    Give some time, then we'll see how things go with their customer service!
  8. adgun

    adgun Active Member

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    Looking @ there floorbase, it can,t by to fast
    Probbely like, bleu tiger motion.
  9. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    Ok. Managed to speak to them on the phone this afternoon rather than wait for email contact.

    Price is £4999 excluding VAT. They are busy preparing for a show in Cologne it two weeks time so they should have video available soon, in preparation for the show.

    As expected, it's 2DOF.
  10. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    It's not likely that they built and are intending to support 60 game plugins. They probably only have the simple data that can be derived from DirectX like Yoda does.

    I think X-Sim will still have a major performance advantage in that PlugFree can gather the DirectX data as well, but X-Sim will also have game specific plugins with higher additional and more detailed data. In short, X-Sim will have the best of both worlds when PlugFree is ready.
  11. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    For 5k pounds + VAT it better perform.. That's over $8000USD... Otherwise it is just going to be an overpriced rocking chair that massages you a little.
  12. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    I must admit to being disappointed at the price, this being higher than I expected. This is very similar in price to the Blue Tiger simulator, although there would of course be shipment cost on bringing a Blue Tiger simulator into the UK (they have a German Distributor).

    We have yet to see the Joyride perform but the Blue Tiger does, to my mind, look to be more robust and they certainly have more experience.
    Both are complete packages but with the hardware becoming ever cheaper it does make you wonder how such high pricing can be justified.

    I am keeping my fingers crossed that someone will eventually put together a DIY kit or make a set of plans available. There are already more of this type of simulator appearing in these forums.
  13. joyridesimulators

    joyridesimulators New Member

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    Hi all,

    Apologies, I have only just spotted this thread and would like to give a little more information on this unit. I did intend to post here once we were launched, the site only went live for the benefit of recent private discussions but you sharp-eyed lot don't miss a thing ;)

    Firstly, this is indeed a very aggressive base and outperforms all the other simulators you have discussed here (and, in terms of speed and response, even those manufactured by InMotion Simulation and Force Dynamics - there will be a direct table of comparison made available on the site soon). The main reason for this is a combination of the extremely lightweight upper platform, and our patented ForceAssist system which offsets the weight of the user dependant on their height / size and pitch/roll displacement - it has been heavily mathematically modelled and its performance is directly comparable to SCN5 based seat-movers (please see the stats in the tech spec PDF), albeit the whole platform moves and over a much greater range making it suitable for every type of game. The Atomic is not a toy like the D-Box, nor is it a brushed-DC motor based system like the Simbol - it is a serious motion simulator which provides an experience directly comparable to these much larger units. The movement range demo in the video is not at all representative of the speed it moves, it actually moves at up to 71.2 degrees a second, meaning at full tilt it can shift from one extreme to the other in less than half a second. On top of this we have a scratch-made closed-loop actuator controller, which delivers organic motion when it is needed for games such as flight / boat sims.

    The reason there is no further info at this time is the site has only just gone live (last week) and we are up to our necks preparing for GamesCom in Cologne where we will be launching this product - I'd like to apologise if there has been no response to enquiries, we are still organising our support structure and things will improve after the launch. The first units are now in production, and in terms of performance against price when compared to other units it represents very good value for money - if you were to examine the quality of the build externally and internally you would see it is extremely well made by professional fabricators, is very heavy duty with high quality ball bearings used in all moving parts, and is built to withstand heavy-use commercial settings. It is not made cheaply, therefore initially, like any product, the build costs are very high, and we do of course anticipate prices to come down in future. Put simply, it is impossible for the project to remain sustainable if it were sold for less; the initial market is for the high-end home gamer and commercial operators.
    Even if we were to make the plans available to DIYers, it would cost more than double the RRP of the unit to build it as a one-off to the same standard, unless you have access to a full fabrication facility. The Atomic is a unique system - we believe there is no other out there that is so compact which offers the same level of performance at this time. You simply cannot transport something such as the BlueTiger between locations easily or just have it sat in your lounge and tucked away when you need the space, but the Atomic will fit in a car boot and when not in use take up little more than the footprint of the seat itself in the corner of a room. The performance is perhaps most comparable to the InMotion Predator (which you may have seen on YouTube), which is a $19k unit and significantly more aggressive than the BlueTiger. To top it all off, we have much more extensive adjustability and control set support than any of these larger systems, meaning you can set it up with any controller you like (even huge controllers such as the VT controller for MechWarrior), and configure it in any driving position you wish. Additionally, unlike any of these systems, the Atomic incorporates a unique PC-controlled powerful tactile transducer system for sound / engine feedback - settings for this can be individually specified and automatically loaded for each game. We expect to have live videos available in the next few weeks to demonstrate this, but if anyone here is in Germany and planning to attend the show please do come for a demo - we will have two active units which people can try out!

    We have a team of highly qualified mechanical, electronic and software engineers, some of whom are avid sim-builders (I personally own Frex and DBOX units, and have been involved in sim building for some years). I can tell you the Atomic solves a lot of problems, and offers an experience superior to these other 'home' units. It is the result of two years of R&D and a huge amount of financial investment by JoyRide and private investors, and is built by simmers for simmers.

    The SIMPHYNITY software is a fair bit more advanced than sirnoname has stipulated, for most games it uses process injection and works in almost exactly the same way as Project Plug-Free, directly extracting full motion data from the games by intercepting DX/GL API calls (i.e. not just 'effects' like you can get from Yoda, rather accurate longitudinal and lateral acceleration values), assisted by the use of our own inhouse tools to locate additional data. It has been in development for quite some time before the Project PlugFree beta video was first posted. For this unit, Simphynity is significantly more powerful, as it provides unique features to operate with our proprietary RideNet protocol and forthcoming products, details of which will be published soon. It provides an extremely simple plug-and-play interface without compromising on features. There is nothing really that X-Sim can do for this base that Simphynity can't - however, x-sim is supported for those who may prefer to use it for their own applications. X-Sim is of course excellent for its cross-compatibility, but for our own commercial purposes we deemed it more suitable to devise our own plug-and-play software which can be easily used and understood by the average home gamer, as well as specifically tailored to our products.
    We're grateful for your patience, rest assured there will be more information and a video demonstrating the unit's capabilities in the coming few weeks. Apologies if my responses here are sloppy in the next 3 weeks, as you can probably imagine we are insanely busy at the moment pending the brand launch.

    One final thing that warrants a mention, in the coming months we anticipate the release of our high velocity bi-directional wind system, Tornado, which will feature precision-controlled tubaxial fans (superior to case fans / most large AC fans) to deliver extremely powerful air-flow. We have prototype units and intend to be in production soon, when combined with the Atomic the sensation is incredible :D

    Thanks all, I hope this has been useful info :)

    Chris
    JoyRide Sims.
  14. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    Hi Chris

    May I say thanks for such a detailed response. Taking the time out to do this when you're obviously so busy in preparation shows a high regard for X-Sim forum members.

    Your comments on the workings and specifications of the Joyride simulator sound very interesting and I look forward to seeing the video/s as and when they are available. Your mention of future price reductions is also very good news although I'm sure that most forum members would of course be hoping for 'near future' rather than the timescale that you may have in mind.

    In comparison with the Blue Tiger and particularly the Force Dynamics the Joyride would seem, at least at this point in time, to lack the ability to have a monitor or a triple monitor setup attached to the simulator. As you have yet to officially launch you may of course already have plans for this but based on your comments about an extremely lightweight upper platform it would appear that adding the weight of three monitors may not be possible. We would appreciate any feedback from you on this.

    Can't wait to see the Joyride 'in action'.

    Regards
    Iain
  15. Frakk

    Frakk Active Member

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    Thank you Chris for taking the time responding here!
    First, congratulations on coming this far with your projects, it must have been a lot of hard work! :cheers:

    A couple quick questions:

    What does exactly your ForceAssist system and RealFeel controller do, and what is different from others? I see you use the TM logo, but I find no record of any patents (otherwise I would already know what it is :)).

    Would you mind expanding on the actuators you are using for the Atomic? From the information given, I am almost certain that you are using something very similar to SCN5 type actuators under the protective cover.

    If that is the case, I am pretty sure an experienced builder can make something like it for less, leave alone twice your price. Might not be the same as the Atomic, but someone with the proper tools and knowledge (which I know is out there) can build something very close. Fine tune the platform with proper X-Sim profiles and it will give even more realistic feedback for each track and car. Don't get me wrong, this is definitely not for everyone.


    We appreciate your responses, and looking forward for some videos. Do your simulator justice and record it with high frames/sec if you can! :)
  16. wimpo`

    wimpo` Member

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  17. pippo978

    pippo978 New Member

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    Hello
    I agree with sirnoname leave the site and the forum just a place for DIY enthusiasts and not turn into a place to advertise.
    Maybe you could create a special category in the forum for commercial simulator but only for informational and comparative.
    Denigrate the x-sim software for its claim in a community of DIY is not very nice, most people have devoted their time to create software and hardware to make sure that everyone of us can build your simulator without spending astronomical sums, d 'Moreover, as also saith sirnoname Everyone is free to spend their money as he wishes but I think that figures like this for a game seem somewhat excessive.
    We all must thank those who have dedicated much of their time to achieve all this and still continue to work to make this comunity, a community of DIY, perhaps the most specialized in this field.
  18. joyridesimulators

    joyridesimulators New Member

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    Hi Sirnoname,

    Firstly, I am extremely sorry if my comments caused offence - that was absolutely not my intention so I sincerely apologise if I upset you :( I only intended to give information about the product as there was some concern in this thread we had not followed up with enquiries, and my comments regarding Simphynity appear to have been taken completely the wrong way. I noticed your earlier post where you stipulated we were using force feedback capture with our software to support the number of games we do, so I wanted to reassure that this was not the case and we were obtaining data in a way that would give accurate motion results as opposed to just singular effects. I freely admit I am not an expert on Yoda, however it was my understanding that rather than intercepting DirectX/OpenGL calls it works by intercepting DirectInput effects calls which do not necessarily always provide the level of information needed to accurately move a 2-dof motion platform in response to what is seen on screen (nor do all games we support necessarily exploit these API's). I am aware of project plugfree, and from what I can see Simphynity is implemented in much the same way - behind the scenes, the API hooks are universal, all we do is configure the pointer paths for each game so it is transparent to the user. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was implying you guys didn't get there first or our software was more advanced, I have nothing but respect for the x-sim dev community and the development team here - I wasn't knocking Yoda, I was trying to differentiate between what it does and what Simphynity/Project plugfree do which is derive long/lat/vert etc forces from vehicle isometry matrices passed to positional/rotational graphics library functions. Reading again, I think in particular my comment that Simphynity was in development before the PPF beta video was made available may have been what was taken out of context - entirely my fault if so.. it was genuinely just intended to reassure you that we didn't steal the idea from the x-sim dev team for commercial purposes - I am of course aware of the amount of time PPF must have been in development in order to get it to the stage you have demonstrated and I think your universal interface does the job very well.

    What I stated was that Simphynity was more advanced for our own purposes, namely because it supports our proprietry RideNet protocol and a competely bespoke UI that is tailored to the features and functions of our products. I did try and indicate what we consider the strengths of x-sim to be, and I maintain as a DIY solution it is excellent.. the problem is the average gamer doesn't really know where to start so we considered a plug and play approach to be more appropriate.

    I'm sorry if I responded in the wrong thread / section, I just assumed this would be the appropriate place to post as it was where the questions were being asked, and wanted to clarify the functions of our software and what the system offers to home users and hobbyists alike - we acknowledge some more advanced users may prefer to use x-sim which is why we opted to provide a support plugin for those that do. I am happy to admit were it not for this community this project may not have even come about, before myself and my peers embarked on this we have previously been involved in self-builds and followed this community for quite some time, gaining much knowledge along the way which helped us end up with the product we can offer today - The aim of the Atomic was to solve many common problems and offer a universal off-the-shelf option for those who may be interested in motion simulation but lack the DIY skills or time to build such a unit.

    Once again I apologise, this really wasn't what was intended :(

    King regards,

    Chris
    JoyRide

  19. joyridesimulators

    joyridesimulators New Member

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    Hi Iain and Frakk,

    Thanks for your replies - I shall respond to your questions in detail by PM as I don't want to continue to post in this thread if the site mods consider it inappropriate, which of course I totally respect. If sirnoname is happy for me to post a thread in a different section I can do so there also if preferred for whoever may be interested. Apologies if there is a delay on doing this, I've never been so busy in my life 8-o

    Thanks again all and sorry if any upset was caused, I only intended to give the information people had requested for comparisson and we'd epically failed to respond to via our website.

    Kind regards,

    Chris
    JoyRide
  20. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

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    Hey c'mon, give the guys a break. This forum is entitled Simulators of our competitors and to my mind this is exactly where these postings should appear and the Joyride team have every right to post here. I would also point out that this thread was started by an X-Sim member and not Joyride themselves.

    Chris was responding, in a very detailed answer, to postings already here. It would appear that he inadvertently upset Sirnoname but as in his post above, he didn't mean to cause any offence and he's apologised.

    I for one am interested in both DIY and commercial motion simulators and am eager to collect as much information as possible on both. I would dearly love to build my own but working for myself this is never going to be. I therefore hope one day to get a commercial simulator, hence why I regularly browse this particular forum.

    If Sirnoname can forgive Chris then I would sincerely hope that Chris continues to post on this forum, to the benefit of all members. In the future his input could be invaluable to members, you never know.

    I would stress that I have no connection to Chris or any member of the Joyride team or the company. I simply felt the posting quoted was a little unfair.

    Regards
    Iain
  21. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    Just to offer my two cents as to the reaction...

    I think the rub was more a matter of expected ettiquette. This is x-simulator.de who's main purpose revolves around SirNoName's software and as a result of this software, general simulator related conversations. Typically, anyone making claims of software A's superior functionalty on software B's website can expect to be flamed. I'm fairly certain I wouldn't get a warm reception on their website if I started posting about the superiority of SimXperience products.

    In any case, it's all water under the bridge, but were I SirNoName, I would have been equally annoyed.