1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

NEW PRO HARDWARE SYSTEM FOR MOTORS!! READ!!

Discussion in 'SimTools compatible interfaces' started by racerg, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Just my opinion, currently we have two option.
    1) tronic card which with the new version looks very good for several motor controllers to add to it and easy code to sort.
    2)Pololu JRK which will run 15v at 30 amps continuous. NO CODE TO WRITE, just uso commands.

    Some of us want simplicity as some of us are NOT programmers.
    12 and 24v choices are good, high current handling is good, simple to set up, even better.
  2. telfel

    telfel Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    170
    Balance:
    4,730Coins
    Ratings:
    +118 / 3 / -0
    hi

    my thoughts on previous ideas

    1) 12 / 24 volt input
    2) 40amp output cont rating
    3) One controller 1 motor
    4) All screw terminal connections
    5) Two board layout control board with power board stacked on top with screw terminals for FETs with fan cooling
    6) USB input
    7) GUI software for PC setup
    8) Option of potentiometer / encoder / hall effect feed back input
    9) Reverse polarity protection
    10) DIP package for mcu to allow replacement, you then have the option of pre assembled or diy assembly kits.

    The black jaguar has the some of the above specs, but TI are stopping production, so with a CAN controller option you may have
    an additional market for FIRST robotics.

    I have a Black Jaguar for testing, which sirnoname has offeed to write a plugin for, so might be worth looking at the CAN protocol for command input.

    cheers Terry
  3. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    Montgomery AL USA
    Balance:
    15,114Coins
    Ratings:
    +434 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hi Gary,
    All of these replies are well above my knowledge.
    I will be using (me thinks) AC motors like CKAS, 3dof, - as said in an early thread here, I have the mechanical skills to weld and build the platform/base, but the intel. stops
    there. A way to interface to pc game - well - there's where I need the help.
    Thanks, Tom
  4. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    1,191Coins
    Ratings:
    +42 / 2 / -0
    To interface to AC motors you're going to need a Frequency Inverter for each motor e.g. Omron J1000, and then run these from a controller e.g Velleman K8061. If you run a search on these forums for CKAS or Velleman you should pick up plenty of info.
    Controlling the AC motors is fairly easy, it's the cost of the motors, the gearboxes and the Frequency Inverters that really hits this option.
  5. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    Montgomery AL USA
    Balance:
    15,114Coins
    Ratings:
    +434 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hello Roadster2,
    I told ya' I'm a dummy AFTER the frame is built.
    I looked at the price of DC GearDrive Motors and they are very very costly. (I'm assimilating that DC Gear Motors are less expensive than all the add-on's for AC required)
    So, IF you would be so kind with you knowledge, what would you suggest in way of motors/brands, controllers etc. If you'll just list like brands/specs., I'll do the rest of searching and come back with what I find and see if it's what I need
    I just want to do it right the first time.
    Thanks so much for your input. I am needing a lot of help in making the right decision.
    Have a blessed one.
    Tom
  6. racerg

    racerg Going too fast... SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    Occupation:
    Sound designer for Olympics. Electronic engineer,
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California- USA
    Balance:
    - 41Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Motion platform
    Hey guys:
    Great comments, keep 'em coming!

    Your ideas fit my product well at this point...but more feedback the better.

    Regarding the CAN protocol: I had looked at something like that and it is good, but drivers may be hard to create...so, won't do that for now.

    I'll keep it USB for now I think.

    I do like the idea of up to 3 DOF motor controllers on the board...thoughts? And that is the design for now, unless we think we'd like to save a few $$ and have it be only 2 DOF? I think that is too limiting...

    It will certainly have analog and digital inputs for encoders.

    We will provide the drivers and basic code, so if you don't want to program anything, you won't have to.

    It will have some additional outputs for things like a fan or gauges...

    It won't have an on board VFD for AC motors (that would be too complex), BUT it will have the analog voltage output to drive of the shelf VFD's...

    More ideas....

    THANKS!!

    -Gary
  7. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    1,191Coins
    Ratings:
    +42 / 2 / -0
    Ok, bear in mind that I'm in the UK so the voltages for the motors are based on a 240V supply. You will need to source motors suitable for your 'mains' voltage (110V ?). Also, I have only researched building a CKAS type motion platform, because of the high costs involved I am now looking to go with 180W 12V DC 5000rpm Brushed Motors and 50:1 reduction gearboxes.

    From my research I was looking for 550W three phase AC motors (the 'mains' supply is single phase, the Frequency Inverters handle the three phase to the motors), 4 Pole, 230/400/3/50, 1400rpm, Frame type 71 (usual frame type is 80). Gearbox is Helical gear, B3 mounting, 47/1 reduction which would give 29rpm output at 157Nm torque.

    Note: in addition to sourcing a motor to suit your 'mains' voltage, the '50' element of the 230/400/3/50 motor rating given above refers to the 'mains' frequency so this may need to be changed if yours isn't 50 cycles/second.

    For Frequency Inverters I was looking at Omron J1000 or Omron Mini-J7.

    Price quoted for each motor/gearbox unit was £807 plus delivery, Frequency Inverters were I think around £100 or so each.

    I have tried to help but it may be better for you to contact other members here who have built a motion platform using AC motors.

    Also a word of warning: in working with 'mains' voltages and particularly with Frequency Inverters you really, really need to know what your doing. Any slip ups could be fatal. Although I didn't go down this route I a started my working life as a qualified electrician so would have been fairly comfortable working with this equipment.
  8. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    Montgomery AL USA
    Balance:
    15,114Coins
    Ratings:
    +434 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Roadster2,
    My source here in USA is 115 or 230 VAC 60 hz Single Phase.
    Guess what I'm confused about - do most of the sim motion builders prefer AC or DC motors? I do not want to go with wiper motors or accutators.
    Thanks so much, Tom
  9. racerg

    racerg Going too fast... SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    Occupation:
    Sound designer for Olympics. Electronic engineer,
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California- USA
    Balance:
    - 41Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Motion platform
    Hi cthiggin:

    I don't want to urn this thread into a detail motor discussion, let's keep it about controllers...

    But...most simmers prefer lower cost alternatives, such as wiper motors.

    if you have the $$ for AC motors, don't worry about the input power too much...because:

    1) Smaller 3 phase inverter duty motors can be run with VFD's that accept 120/220 VAC input, single phase and the VFD will output 3 phase to the motors.

    2) if the VFD accepts only 220 VAC input, you can use a cheap step-up transformer to convert your 120 VAC to 220 VAC...current draw is pretty low if you are talking a 550 watt motor.

    3) Two good sources for motors and encoders are: SEW Eurodrive and Nord Geamotors. Some of the motors can be purchased through Grainger here in the USA...make sure it's an inverter duty motor.

    4) As I stated earlier: my controller will output the appropriate signals to drive your VFD...

    Hope this helps, now back to controllers...

    -Gary
  10. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    Montgomery AL USA
    Balance:
    15,114Coins
    Ratings:
    +434 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hi Gary,
    First & moremost, I apologize if it appeared I was hi-jacking this thread. I don't do that.
    I'm just wanting to get started and needed some info - I'm tired of reading hundreds of threads with no definitive answers.
    I will leave you with this ? - AC or DC Motors - what is the preference....................
    and now back to controllers.
    Thanks so much and again, apologies. Have a blessed one.
    Tom
  11. racerg

    racerg Going too fast... SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    Occupation:
    Sound designer for Olympics. Electronic engineer,
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California- USA
    Balance:
    - 41Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Motion platform
    Hey Tom:

    No problem! When we release our controller, we will have a forum set-up to discuss everything...I am happy to share whatever I know!

    DC vs AC: totally different animals...you need to study torque curves, etc., to decide what's best for you. In most cases, a smaller (say 1/4 HP to 1/2 HP) AC three phase motor will work just fine...

    That said, many prefer DC motors and this debate has been raging in the sim world for a long time.

    A lot of the pro, larger sim's use AC motors: lower cost, lot's available, easy to drive, etc.

    Guess if it was me, I'd use an AC motor, simple...

    I've experimented with a lot of motors: steppers, DC brushless servo, AC, etc... I find AC motors to be easy to use and simple to operate...

    Gary
    • Old Old x 1
  12. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    Montgomery AL USA
    Balance:
    15,114Coins
    Ratings:
    +434 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Gary,
    Thanks to you for accepting my apology and hopefully others too!
    I'll go the AC route - I'll start building my platform/frame and by that time, you folks may be up to full speed.
    Thanks again, and NO MORE from me about this stuff on this thread...
    Like you said Back to Controllers
    Have a blessed one.
    Tom
  13. Roadster2

    Roadster2 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    UK
    Balance:
    1,191Coins
    Ratings:
    +42 / 2 / -0
    In case it's of interest; SEW Eurodrive supply the motor/gearbox units to CKAS Mechatronics. SEW Eurodrive have a base in Tullamarine in Melbourne, Australia and this is also the home of CKAS Mechatronics.
  14. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    Montgomery AL USA
    Balance:
    15,114Coins
    Ratings:
    +434 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Roadster2,
    Thanks so very very much for the info.
    Have a blessed one.
    Tom
  15. jyrki.j.koivisto

    jyrki.j.koivisto New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    Finland
    Balance:
    314Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Will there be a braking resistor, or at least an option to add one later? IMHO what makes a difference between a simple controller and a pro one is how they handle transient voltages.

    For beginner simmers I'd suggest to stay away from mains voltages, things can get deadly pretty easily.
  16. racerg

    racerg Going too fast... SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    Occupation:
    Sound designer for Olympics. Electronic engineer,
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California- USA
    Balance:
    - 41Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Motion platform
    Hi jyrki.j.koivisto:

    We do plan on a braking resistor option...

    And, of course, good transient protection!

    -Gary
  17. paiva27

    paiva27 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Balance:
    - 14Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
  18. jyrki.j.koivisto

    jyrki.j.koivisto New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    Finland
    Balance:
    314Coins
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0
    Hi Rafel,

    I don't wan't to hijack this thread, but there are some calculations that I have done for that sim, you can post your questions there if not wanting to start a new thread.

    1,5hp motors are plenty but I don't know anything about that velleman product, I would let some dedicated controller take care of all the axis.
  19. racerg

    racerg Going too fast... SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    Occupation:
    Sound designer for Olympics. Electronic engineer,
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California- USA
    Balance:
    - 41Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, AC motor, Motion platform
    Hi Everyone:

    It's been a while since I have posted as we have been evaluating our board.

    I've now made a major change in processor type...

    We are using the STM32F103RB processor, which has a lot of speed and many i/o's that we will use for encoders, etc.

    This is a very fast ARM Cortex™-M3 32-bit RISC chip !

    Processor speed is 72 MHz, which translates to about 1.25 DMIPS/MHz (Dhrystone 2.1).

    It is still using the Arduino language. This much better processor and higher speed will allow us to do a lot more... :)

    More soon!

    -Gary
  20. ferslash

    ferslash Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    492
    Balance:
    4,757Coins
    Ratings:
    +180 / 2 / -0
    Gary:

    I was looking for a solution like the one you are trying to built, something like plug and play... i found finally the pololu jrk 12v12, this card do all the job, the drawback is that you need one per motor... and the price... $100 usdlls per card...

    consider this alternative as your rival... maybe you would like to see pololu's page... and of course... you have your points to improve vs pololu...

    if you deliver a less expensive alternative ($ less than 200 usdlls in the simplest case of a 2dof sim)

    best regards

    fer

    (let me know when you have your card... i may be your client) :D

    ferslash@hotmail.com