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News New 6dof+ AASD15 Servo Motion Controller

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by Motion4Sim, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. Motion4Sim

    Motion4Sim Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Thanks for the hint that could also be a point that I could investigate with.:thumbs so far my mental focus has always been on reducing the lag/delay we have from the simulation to the position of the rig. but that's all a lot of work. but winter is coming and i will have more time there.:grin
  2. Motion4Sim

    Motion4Sim Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    to take up the topic again, there are currently 3 data modes with the m4s controller to illustrate this, i have created a template for mover in which all 3 modes are used. You can find this template shared in the online area of the new mover updates.

    for explanation(each mode works also independently)

    1. standard actuator mode
    acs-> pose from motion-> rotating hexpod module-> output (using binary 24bit)

    2. scaled 6dof position mode (outdated < mover 2.99)
    acs-> multidirect (6 times for each dof) -> output(using binary 24bit)

    3. 6dof position mode float
    acs-> motion pose-> rig: just rig(unconfigured)-> output(using float 32bit)


    you can find more details in the manual

    6dof float positions modes requires the same geometric settings in the controller as in the rotating hexapod rig module from mover
  3. Mat_Menzies

    Mat_Menzies New Member

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    Hi M4S, and pmvdca for that matter, love your work guys. I appreciate the input to our community.
    I'm about to start buliding a 6DOF stewart platform, done lots of reading and selecting hardware and I have two questions that I haven't found clear answers to yet:
    • Is a hardware interface, such as Thanos or M4S, required? I dont mean to detract from those awesome PCB's, just trying to fully understand.
      • Or can the same results be achieved using FlyPT (and also now SimTools 6DOF support)?
      • If hardware is required, does M4 board work with other motor controllers? Such as Lz3b-20LM? (pic of interface attached). This interface comes with a 44pin HDDSUB connector instead of the traditional 25pin DSUB, but appears to have the same pin names. It does have RS485 ModBUS but no RS232.
        I ask because I was quoted a reasonable price for 80SL-02430 with Lz3b-20LM driver and 32:1 planetary reduction.
    • I saw some mention of the size ratio between bottom and top platform sizes,
      • is there an ideal ratio, top bigger or smaller? Should they be the same?
      • Is it better to move the base actuator pivot locations (or COR of rotational actuators in my case) closer to an equilateral triangle, or spaced evenly to a hexagonal arrangement? It seems most are moving them to triangle arrangement, but I cant find supporting information for either design.
    In my readings I have found numerous documents, websites, videos and whitepages regarding stewart platforms and so I will post a list as soon as I start a build thread.

    Attached Files:

  4. Mat_Menzies

    Mat_Menzies New Member

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    I would upload the entire manual except its 26MB.
    I might just extract the pages pertinent to the model I am looking to purchase and upload that as an excerpt.

    Attached Files:

  5. Bastiuscha

    Bastiuscha Active Member

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    You need always a Hardware Interface to control your Servos. A Cueing Software is also always needed. I'm not sure with the support Question. In case of doubt, it is best to ask the constructors himself.
    For dimension tests, i recommend flypt...there you have a possibility to enter your Dimensions and simulate the movements in a 3D Window. Here you can see well which constellation works good.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2021
  6. Motion4Sim

    Motion4Sim Member

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    hi ,yes it looks like a self-made cable can be used to connect to the existing servo motor controller. But with the circuit diagrams here alone, it is not safe to say whether all functions will work safely. I think you should go to the aasd driver, I'm not sure if the possible price difference is so big and justifies the work for the cables.
    But on the other hand it would of course also be interesting to see whether other drives work with the controller. upload the manual and send the download link here. i will have a closer look.

    and yes, basti is correct, you need a controller for the servomotors, only software alone cannot do that.

    There are of course many approaches to construction. Ultimately, there are two ways (rotary and linear) with both advantages and disadvantages. the base and upper should always be slightly different. symmetry is always advantageous for the greatest possible range on the axes. if you make the upper platform proportionally smaller you get bigger angles. but the topic is so big and there are some good contributions here in the forum. try to simulate your ideas with movers 3d output. you can easily find out the situation there.

    if you live in europe i can lend you a controller to try, here it makes sense with the shipping costs. pm me for details.
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  7. Mat_Menzies

    Mat_Menzies New Member

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    OK, I didn't make my question clear enough :)
    Thanks Basti, and M4S for your informative answer.
    I currently have a small 6 RC servo unit working on my bench, I built it only to serve as a test to see that I could get what I needed from simtools into a 6DOF platform and measurements were arbitrary. Then I found FlyPT and worked only with that. I modelled the design in FlyPT as built (6 evenly spaced servos on 110mm base and close enough to triangle on 104mm top). I wrote some code on an Arduino to receive data from FlyPT and drive 6 servos. I hooked it up to iRacing and configured what I liked. I also used a joystick as a source and use that for testing range of motion etc.
    My question around needing a device such as M4Sim came about because it seems FlyPT does all of the pose pretending and outputs servo locations as required, isn't this the major function of the M4S?
    Provided I can get the required servo locations to the motor drivers supplied with the motors, I could simply use my Arduino to receive FlyPT data and send it to the motor controllers. Theoretically, I could even plug 6 serial adapters into my PC and use one each for the motor drivers without the arduino interface.
    Yes, I agree these are stand-in hardware for the M4S, but the question was really "can I do [the above] without the need for additional hardware such as M4S?"
    • Thanks for the offer of loaned controller, but in Australia here and if required I'll be happy to purchase :)
    • As for making that cables to suit, for me thats a trivial task which I perform daily.
    • I have no experience with ModBUS but am comfortable with RS485 and I feel like the only requirement for me to buy an M4S (or Thanos) at the moment would be to get the RS232 data into RS485 modbus. And I feel like thats something I should be able to figure out. I guess I'll find out this weekend :D
    • The cost difference is significant, at the moment I can get the Motors, drivers and planetary 32:1's for ~ US$1900 direct freight (US$533 freight! $200 for sea freight), I cant get close to that for whats available with AADSL15A at the moment :-(
    Whats available does change rapidly so I'm checking regularly, but the quote I have from an AliBaba supplier is the best I've come up with for the last month of looking. If someone is aware of 80-M02430 with gearboxes and AADSL15A's for a similar price I'm just as happy to go with another supplier :)
    I'll upload the manual tomorrow and provide a link. Cheers guys.
  8. Mat_Menzies

    Mat_Menzies New Member

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    My Mistake, 2.6MB, not 26 lol.

    Attached Files:

  9. Motion4Sim

    Motion4Sim Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    well now i got it.

    to get back to the functions of the m4s controller, of course, takes the position signals from flypt and converts them into pulses and directions. there are also other signals for calibration and errors. In addition, position calculations are carried out especially for 6dof when the geometry of the platform is entered

    of course you can take an arduino and write code for it so that it works with flypt or simtools and then connect it to the motor drivers and thus control the motors.
    so you create the controller after you asked whether it works without it.
    but i think you mean the possibility to connect the drivers directly to the pc and to transmit the signals via modbus. That doesn't make sense because the Modbus communication is way too slow.
    in your manual there is no information about modbus transmission speeds but mostly these are only 33kbps like with the aasd and that is too slow. if you want to build a control yourself, this only works with this type of servo motor via the pulse dirmode, so thanos and my controller work too.
    I skimmed through the manual because the description of many details is missing. but basically i think it could work.but you will have to test it yourself. I still recommend you to stick to the aasd servo, they have proven themselves. look an alieexpress for aasd servos .

    https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32835293950.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5b044c4dZhFUDc

    https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32844239563.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.73c54c4dCp2qDK
  10. Mat_Menzies

    Mat_Menzies New Member

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    Thanks M4S, appreciate the long answer and your time to review the manual :)

    You mostly got it: "of course you can take an arduino and write code for it so that it works with flypt or simtools and then connect it to the motor drivers and thus control the motors."
    Yes, this is where I'm at.

    I think your statement is key to my question: " In addition, position calculations are carried out especially for 6dof when the geometry of the platform is entered".
    ^^ This I dont understand.
    In my experience this is what FlyPT does, I entered my platform geometry into FlyPT and it performed the calculations and gave me servo position information. But you're saying M4S does this in addition to FlyPT?

    You mentioned the modbus comms being too slow, good point. I didn't consider that M4S or Thanos were not sending on modbus. This point alone seems to validate that best case is to use M4S or Thanos controller, more than any other.

    My example of using output from the PC via 6 serial ports to the motor drivers was a simplistic abstract to try and convey my confusion as to why the M4s or Thanos or even Arduino, would be required. I was trying to frame my question in another way. Agreed not a sensible approach, but a valid question nonetheless.

    So again, thanks for the info. In terms of the cost of a 6DOF rig, the extra $ for an M4S or Thanos is a small part and itt seems there are benefits to using M4S or Thanos, but no requirement. Would that be the true case?

    I appreciate your efforts and assistance to everyone.
  11. John Edmeston

    John Edmeston New Member

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    I greet the community of the movement platforms.

    Advanced servo motor control unit for up to 7 motors
    Hello, I too would be interested.
    thanks,
    John
  12. John Edmeston

    John Edmeston New Member

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    Hello, would these be able to control linear actuators
    e.g.
    FDR075 Heavy Duty Servo Motor Angetrieben Elektrische Zylinder Linear Antrieb Max Schub 10000N Ersatz für Pneumatische Zylinder like you can get on aliexpress??
    for a 6 dof racing/flight sim??
  13. Motion4Sim

    Motion4Sim Member

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    Hi these actuators are too slow for sim motion ... sfx is (5mm pitch) max speed 250 mm/s and my rotating actuator is 600mm/s but these actuators are strong ask them for redutction 1:1 then speed goes up .

    upload_2021-11-9_11-18-4.png

    these motos should be aasd servo drives to work with the controller
  14. Motion4Sim

    Motion4Sim Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Okay the m4s controler can also calculate the motor positions in an 6dof system but you dont have to use it

    this means that there is a little less load on the cpu since it is calculated on the controller. I also use a 1ms cycle which makes the filter work better. some users said it would run a bit smoother but i don't notice any differences to the calculation compared to mover



    read the manual ,chapter 8. and 11. actually no WIP status more.

    upload_2021-11-9_11-36-38.png

    download it from my github

    https://github.com/motion4sim/AASD1...g_manual_en_v2.2_newest_machine_translate.pdf


    you do not need to use a thanos or m4s controller if you can code and develop your own system,but you will need a external controller for fast motion.
  15. 卡尔黄森

    卡尔黄森 New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    You also produce PCB in our region China
  16. Dirty

    Dirty Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Hey :),

    I recently became another satisfied customer of this fine piece of harware!:):)
    I am still totally blown away by how smooth and quiet my actuators run. Looking forward to giving them some extensive testing in the weeks to come, but I can already say that I definitely don't regret this purchase.

    Agree! I have the impression that many people struggle to get a grip on Mover and its many features, but as someone who also wrote a software for motion cueing, I really have to tip my head off to @pmvcda for packing such a load of features into such an elegant, compact and modular user interface. It really doesn't get any simpler! My recommendation for users would be: Don't try to understand the software. Rather try to understand the underlying concepts of motion cueing. Then it will become totally self evident why the software is the way it is.

    I also share this believe. It was the smooth and fluent motion that flight sims require that I found to be hardest to create. In the air everything is smooth and flowing, nothing is rough. Even violent turbulence feels kinda "round" (for lack of a better word).

    Your controller really is a game changer in that regard!

    Dirty :)
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    Last edited: Dec 13, 2021
  17. Dirty

    Dirty Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Hey guys,... :)

    finally had the time to hook the M4S controller up to a sim and see how it does there. Up until now, I only used it with a generic test motion-pattern from my software that I made for diagnostic purposes.
    Boy,.... is this fun!

    I ran into a few questions, and because others might benefit from them as well, I thougth I'd ask them here instead of via PM:
    1. I noticed that when I flip the switch to "Online" the rig goes to a position that is about 50% extension. From there it then folllows the motion commands. Is there a way to set this position on linear actuators? I'd love to be able to set a certain length for that. Either "global" or on a "per actuator" setting.
    2. I noticed that when I use the emergency-stop button, it completely depowers the motors. Is there a way to change that behavior so that it only freezes the rig? I'd love to be able to choose wether I want a Depower or a Freeze function on that button.
    Cheers,... Dirty :)
  18. Dirty

    Dirty Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    ...and in case someone gets lost in the menu. Here's a map:
    upload_2021-12-13_16-23-39.png
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. Motion4Sim

    Motion4Sim Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Thank you @Dirty for your feedback. I am glad that you are satisfied.
    thank you for menu map.

    to answer your question.
    to setup different parkingpositions or standby positions there are some options already included in fw
    so you can play with actuator stroke and or increase the safety length so park and standby positions could be moved. but the standby pos should always be in the middle of the actuator length i think?

    i have finished new fw update and testing is done . there is a update for using an extra pin for switching servobrakes and an additional option to set an offset for the linear actuators start position for each individual actuator. this is normally used for calibration of endless slew actuators.
    also actuatorcheck option has been approved . will upload the new fw next days.

    you can already change the behaviour of emergency switch in ->menu->setup->Emergency Stat
    "ON" : Servos were switched off and rig falls down
    "OFF": Servos stop working but are energized and hold position
    also you can setup the way of emergency button is switch so normaly open and normaly closed.
    checkout the manual page 25 i think.

    please feel free to ask more questions.
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  20. Dirty

    Dirty Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Ahhh there it is! Yes, that's what I was looking for! :thumbs
    I overlooked "Emergency Stat" because I thought it was some kind of statistics how ofter the user needed to emergency-stop the rig.

    Maybe it is my childish naivity, but does it make sense, to have to set it to ON to have the motors go OFF... and set it to OFF to make the motors stay ON when the button is used? :D

    Cheers,... Dirty :)