New 3DOF FlightSim / Racing Platform Project

Good Day Fellow X-Simmers

I am new to the forum, I have been spending much time learning as much as i can from all you very knowledgeable simmers and I I think it's time I introduce myself :hi: as well as my planned simulator project.

My Name is Dwain and I am a 31 year old Sales Executive from South Africa, I have always been fascinated with anything related to games, simulation etc..

Some of my Top 10 favourite arcade simulation games at my local arcade as a kid where:

1. Air Combat
2. Nascar Racing
3. Starblade
4. Manx TT Superbike
5. Sega Rally
6. Virtua Racing
7. Afterburner
8. Top Gun
9. Jurassic Park
10. Top Skater

What I loved most about the simulation games was that it made you feel like you where in the game, not just controlling it with a joystick and I thought as a kid How I would love to have one of these in my house one day little knowing that 20 years later, technology would become so cheap and accessible that almost any one can build their own motion simulator!

How it started that I came across this wonderful website, was that I was building a driving seat very similar to the RB1 racing seat from Playseat and I was looking for a way to make my own Force Feedback steering wheel. I then saw all the magic people are creating from readily available parts and I thought to myself, why just stop at a seat? Why not a motion platform, and so the idea for my platform was born.

My motion simulator will be a dual Flight and Racing Simulator and X-Sim seems to be the perfect way of controlling it!

It must adhere to the following conditions:

1. Costs to be kept under €200 cos I'm cheap and have just had my first child (I'm using Euro's cos it's the easiest currency to convert back to my own South African Rand €1 = R10 and for everyone else to compare the costs to)

2. Has to have at least 3DOF with Pitch, Roll and Yaw / Traction Loss

3. Not Take up too much space (This one is from the missus!)

So I will keep you all updated as I progress with the project.

Cheers For Now!

Hi dwain. I think your supposed cost is really impossible for a 3dof.

I show you what I spent (so and so) for my 3dof system:
3 electric winches = 220 €
3 motor controller Pololu Jrk12v12 = 220 €
under dais = 50 €
Seat = 117 €
All Iron structure and all iron components (spring, bolts,screws, winches modifies ecc ecc)= 250/300 €
3 batteries = 190€ --- or --- 3 220v to 12v PSU switches = 120€
3 potentiometers = 39€
wires of many types = 15/30 €
Hoping you have already a wheel, a monitor and minimum 1 pc (2 pc is better, 1 for the profiler and one for the sender + game)your spending is not less 1031€, if not you have to add the price to these:
wheel = 100€ (so and so)
monitor 19 (very little ) = 120€

Here also I don't add the cabin cost, weldings, the really many works needed and the price for all the tools you need to build your machine.

Ps the prices you see in this post are just if you already know how build your machine. I have spent at least € 600/700 more for all the experiments I needed to know how to build my 3dof (burning pots, buring jrks, damaged components, wrong components ecc).

I can second that with aldoz. At that cost you will be lucky for a 2dof. Aldoz also forgot to mention the time investment and research of parts and and know how. The performance you expect and the result are far between unless you are a programmer and know how to synchronise your motion, motor drive, power and speed and responsiveness. Wiper motors are not good for 3dof.
2 wheelchair motors 250+w cost me £200 alone.
My project cost estimate I think around £1000+ 4motors, batteries, steel, motor drivers, micro processor, LCD readout, wiring, seat, fittings( joints, rodends, nuts bolts, actuator arms custom) and tools.

@Aldo's & @Barts

Thanks for the reply, nice to get feedback so quickly!

I understand that there are big costs involved with Sims, as they never truly are Finished as one tends to tweak and improve constantly adding and upgrading hardware. Ultimately we all would want a 6 DoF 2,500 lb Motion Platform, Concave Projection, Fully kitted out with all the Saitek X52, Cessna and Fanatech toys but...

Reality is I want to start small (and cheaply) with 3DOF with 20-30 Degrees movement and the €200 is a rough estimate based on just building the platform only. It's not like I'm going to give up should I go over the limit of €200, but I think it would be cool to see how close to that I can get.

Here's a list of items I already have to implement into the build as well as helping me test the items that will be put into the build:

1. Logitech DriveFX FFB Steering Wheel + Pedals
2. Vibration Feedback Flightstick
3. My Quad Core Based PC + My Wife's Dual Core Laptop
4. Endless Supply of off-cut wood (My Landlord owns the furniture factory on the same property we live on) :brows:
5. Upholstery supplies I bought for the racing seat I was building before I got the bee in my bonnet to build the simulator
6. My 500 watt AC Drill To use for testing an AC Motor
7. My car's rear wind-shield wiper motor

Ok next post I'll list the options and costs I am looking at for Driving / Controlling the platform

Cheers
D

Hi again dwain.
a 3DOF with 20-30 Degrees movement it's not easy to build and sure not cheap.
My motion system touch 20 degrees lateral and longitudinal tilt and I would to add more 5 degrees but believe me, a lot of variables are in the field.. many components involved and this can mean that the motors can get over the effort. As BartS say, wipers motors can't handle a 3dof; A lot of discussions here about and thed result is that wiper motors can't do it.

Sure, with a lot of commitment maybe you can reach a 3dof with puleys and wiper motors but sure it will be a weird machine, really over limits, slow and you will spent a lot of time and money to have a wrong machine.

The minimum requirement for a 3dof are the famous (earobbie idea) electric winches, DC 12v max 30Amps. They are really good! If you try and try about mechanical setup so you can reach a good speed! but there are a lot of problems related and you are to choose the correct controller (I am using the great (Frakk idea) Pololu Jrk12v12.
I don't know your mechanical - electrical - electronic experience but you will get a lot of work!

There are a lot of DC or AC great motors (really more powerful and fast) but the price is very high and you need to do much more work using another controller (H-bridge ecc) instead the easily usable jrk12v12.

If you want to build just the frame so you can spent less (I see you already have monitor, wheel, pc, and seat (you need too a good car bump spring), so you can start to have a material idea of your future platform.
So good luck and please, read a lot in this forum, it's a true motion platform enciclopedia!

Sorry for my english and bye

No Worries about your English mate, I can't even speak Italian!

I have a bit of electronics and mechanical knowledge but I learn quick so no problem there

From what I've read and heard and what you've told me wiper motors just wont cut it for 3 DOF , so I have been looking into AC motors, 550 watt Ac Power Drill Motors to be exact, I can get these drills for around €18 each brand new! (In fact, our local Hardware Mass Store - Builders Warehouse has them on special for R149.99 or €15 )

Now two issues that are associated with AC motors is the following (and please correct me if I am wrong):

1. Direction change isn't as simple as changing polarity on DC motors because AC doesn't have polarity
2. Speed Control isn't as simple as decreasing voltage because you will lose torque and create heat

Thus the two solutions I believe to solve the Speed and Direction Control issues for AC motors is as follows:

1. From EMRC : Single-phase AC electric motors run in the direction in which they are started; and they are started in a predetermined direction according to the electrical connections (Capacitor) or mechanical setting of the starting means. General-purpose AC motors may be operated in either direction, but the standard ac motor rotation is counterclockwise when facing the end opposite the drive shaft. AC motors can be reconnected (Capacitor Switching) to reverse the direction of rotation.

Thus the direction of the AC motor can be changed via the following circuit that changes the way direction the current flows through the capacitor:



from this washing machine motor controller diagram

2. Speed control without torque loss can be achieved via the Velleman K2636 Kit


or cheaper alternatives

From the K2636 Manual: This kit was designed to control the speed of AC motors with carbon brushes, anything from drills to saws to vacuum cleaners. Unlike other circuits such as normal dimmers the kit performs a phase cut only once per period. The moment of cutting determines the speed, which can be adjusted from 5% to 95%.
The kit provides high torque even at low speeds. RFI is suppressed to eliminate noise and interference. The circuit controls both low voltage (from 24VAC to 240VAC at 5.5A) AC motors and mains voltage (110VAC or 220VAC) loads.
The supply and load circuits are electrically isolated from each other for safety and reliability. The control circuit is powered by the mains, but the load supply may be derived from a different AC source. Both voltages should be the same frequency and the same phase or opposite phase.

So with this said, is there any other reasons why I shouldn't look into AC Drill motors as a driving force?

Thanks for you interest in my project!

In my opinion I would recommend if you was to go all out and build a 3DoF, do plenty more research into 3DoFs on here. Note they are not many thats because altho not as complexed as 6DoF stewart platform they are more difficult to build than you realise alot of people start but dont finish and give up. NOTE : me an Aldoz are both 3DoFs his works mine is not moving yet, but it will be us that you will be relying on advice from.
Best advice now --> U want a 3DoF, copy something that somebody has already done and proven working like Aldoz regarding JRKs and winch motors. Stick to the most common parts that well all use on here regarding electronic boards DC motors and Drivers, people that have used these parts will help and advice you. Do not start piecing up your own imaginative collection of cheap chinese ebay parts that you presume are going to do the job as you will not get help for this and be even more disappointed in 2 years time when you have all thes parts lying around and a hole in your pocket and an angry girlfriend. Theres a guy on here named Vulbas I think he started 3 DoF with AC motors not heard anything of his progress for a while, I remember he had all these variable inverters and from a 5v to 10v pwm modification on a vellman board must of cost excess 2000euro, so why we not heard much is because its not easy and he is an experienced builder.
AC motors are going to be your first failure, You also risk death messing with AC. Look up a guy named pathetic on here he was building 3DoF AC power I think he was ok with 2 axis but when it came to 3 axis his progress slowed because I presume he ran into problems maybe cos he wasnt a programmer.
Riton on here has experience with AC motors he will tell you its more trouble than its worth, he has speed issues of some type altho his sim looks very cool and powerful.
But the moral is this I am trying to steer your project away from failure an not just put a downer on things. stick with the cheaper DC motors route 12 or 24volt, choose an easy to use control board and some beefy motor drivers that are proven on here by a few people.

Hello , in regards to AC motors, I think another member of the forum (brain is fried) was also doing an AC motor thing, and again, was up against a HIGH cost, despite using cheap second hand AC motors, the control board side cost was the killer. His estimated cost was up to $1500 for a 2DOF, I think. The drill motors your are looking at may have a good wattage behind them, but they may not have enough torque to move a body.
Aldoz has done remarkable work with the JRK's and winch motors on a 3DOF.
As for cost of build, I think my calculations for base build (2DOF) were almost nothing (except time) as I had most stuff lying around. Other costs were JRK's $250, motors x 2 $20, cut down tailshaft (pivot point) $15, welding rods, screws, nuts, bolts, etc. $150, brackets for motors x 2 $20, other bits and pieces $50. So it does add up, but it is well worth it for the cheap cost as opposed to buying one and the satisfaction of constructing your own motion simulator.
You do not need to be a programmer to design the profiles for movement. I am a mindless forklift driver, but simply asked questions and tested for hours on movement profiles. We can give you copies of our profiles if you like, then you can fiddle with them yourself.
Have fun designing!
Cheers, David.

I've also started my 3DOF platform ages ago and there's nothing done yeat. For the motors it's not enough that they give alot of torque but they should be able to be hold stationary too, that's why the Force Dynamics simulator uses servo motors and the Motion-Sim's one has an industrial gearbox.

Power drill motors run in very high speeds and have lightweight gear reducer (sometimes even made from plastic...) at the chuck end. Output shafts on powerdrills is also too narrow and I'd say it's not fat enough to transfer the torque needed for the actuator. On my system I calculated some 70Nm of torque when moving up (200kg payload, goes up to some 100+ Nm if payload is 300kg) and that's with the belt system. My other route is to use ballscrews and they then would use less torque but higher speeds for the same payload (1,95Nm and 6000rpm)

I'd say you're some kind of a magician if you're able to build the thing with 200€, I've spended that much on postage cost alone so far...

Ok after doing some more research on the (cheap) direction reversal of Single Phase AC (Drill Motors) I have found the following document showing you how to wire up a simple circuit to change the direction of AC motors using DPDT switches or relays, here is an extract:

Download the document here

This coupled with the PWM circuits to control Single Phase AC motors such as the Velleman K2636 kits I think may just be the answer to using cost effective AC motors.

the circuit looks straight forward enough. If you can source the parts cheap, it may do the job.

Yeah gonna design the circuit this weekend and will post the PCB layout here for everybody else to use as well as a Bill Of Materials and where I sourced them

Thanks for that dwain ;D

last post Nov 2011 ... way back
This thread seems to be dead ... and needs to be alive again .... right
I'm working on something like the Velleman K2636 module ...

actually I was searching Google for washing machine ac motors wiring and brought me back here in this tread ...

Lol at least Google doing ya well , bring you back home. LOL

Anytime I try to look something up vis-a-vis motion platforms most all of the results are for XSimulator.net