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New 2dof simulator simtools + Jrk 12v12

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by gigi, May 29, 2014.

  1. Michael Hensen

    Michael Hensen Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I can confirm Historiker.. Windows 8.1 all works, just make sure you install software as 'administrator' and you will never be in any trouble..
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  2. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I just found it a pain in the rear to use with some games , like race07 would not alt tab back to the desktop without crashing the game.
    They probably fixed that issue with update thou.
    And VB.net was not liking it either so I went back to good old Windows 7.
    But did test all version to be sure the first public release of SimTools would comply with Windows 8, lol Xsim doesn't, lol.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    Hi Guys, Yesterday I bought the pc this one:
    AMD FX 6300 6-core 3.5 GHz OC
    - Video Card AMD Radeon HD 7870 "OC Edition" 2 GB dedicated RAM
    - 8 GB RAM @ 1600MHz GSKILL ARES
    - Motherboard ASROCK PRO3 970
    - SAMSUNG 500 GB HDD @ 7200 rpm
    - Cooler Alpine artic pro
    - DVD-ROM RW SONY
    - AeroCool homes StrikeXone advance USB 3.0 with 2 fans
    Operating system: Windows 8.1 in Italian PRO enabled.
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  4. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    here is a drawing and some photos

    Attached Files:

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  5. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    As you can see from the photos the seat base has these dimensions:
    width 45 cm
    length 53 cm
    the balance point is 18 cm (see drawing)
    The total length including the basis for the pedals is 125 cm
    The basis for the pedals is positioned lower than the base of the seat of approximately 14 cm
    At this point I ask:
    - Where you should place the engine considered that the balance point is not centered but advanced with respect to the center of the base of the seat?
    - It 's better to place the engine at the rear?
    -Using the engines that David uses better rate 1:25 or 1:50?
    - How many degrees you tilt the postazzione (pitch max)?
    -How long should be the hub for the tree with the maximum pitch does not touch the ground?
    - The hub is better that it is positioned as close as possible to the seat?

    Attached Files:

  6. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    uffa!

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  7. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    lol thanks for turning the drawing around.
    Are you guessing where the balance point is to be ?

    What you need to do to find the balance point is too set the rig up totally with everything on including wheel, pedals, seat , yourself and nay other weight you might add, then the tricky bit for yours as the base is not flat, you have a step. You need to balance the whole item on a box of some strength , with a pole (broomstick) under it going from left to right. Now with the help of a equally strong friend have them hang onto the sim while you jump on(carefully) and then check it for balance. If not move the sim back and forth on the pole to find the balance point where your friend can easily hang on and keep you level. Can be a little tricky but worth it.

    Once you have found this position mark it on the sides of the frame and this is the centre of the uni for equal weight distribution, meaning motors now work evenly up and down. Now as along as the rig is balanced front to back, meaning it has equal weight of the the centre going from back to front then you can use the centre of the rig for the other centre line.

    Now the uni joint needs to be place near to the base of the chair as possible, so your centre of the uni would be about 60mm down from the base of the chair support. The longer this is the more top heavy your sim will be resulting in adding more unnecessary strain on your motors.

    If linkages from the motor arms to the sim will not be at shoulder height on the rear then they should in theory go about where your knees end up and should connect about that above the cg so inturn allowing them to lift a load. With this setup you will have more roll than pitch, for racing that's alright, this makes the surge and pitch motions nice and sharp allowing it too have a wallowing roll and sway.

    With full 2dof motion I would lean towards the 50:1 units , sacrifice the speed for more torque. Means handles more weight.
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  8. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    I calculated the balance point in the correct manner, with the seat, pedals, steering wheel and I sat on the seat (I weight 80Kg). I placed a round tube under the tree to find the exact balance point.
    The point of balance is what I have shown in the drawing, relative to the base of the seat is positioned 18 cm from the front of the seat base and 27 cm from the rear. I wonder at this point if mounting the engines as the david project the distance between the shaft and the coupling lever actuated by the engine is not too small and therefore whether it is better to mount the engines at the rear
  9. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Spot on mate wasn't 100% that you found the right spot most take a guess first time.

    Its all about how much movement your motors can handle. I have never got motors to run under a sim as nice as they do when they are taken to the shoulder, so I don't even bother these days. Need to look at it like a lever, if mount at rear under the frame the pedal section acts like a long lever, to gain more force I lift the connection point all the way to the shoulders, where to least effort is required to move the weight and hold a position, plus spreading the motors in order to support the natural turn when in roll and pitches in one movement, tends to want to twist the top around the base. You shouldn't have an issue there as using a nice strong uni.
    If you wanted to mount the motors under the frame to keep it all compact , as @bsft has shown they work better up front , between pivot and pedals.
  10. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    @gigi

    Looks like its going to be a pretty fast machine, and a great price too!
    Be sure to update the firmware on the board to the latest when setting up.
    Or at lest make sure you have the newest one already.

    I have not tried the ASRock AMD stuff yet, but if it's anything like the Intel stuff, you will be good to go!
    Let us know how it all works once you get it all built!

    Looks Good man!
    yobuddy
  11. bsft

    bsft

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    @gigi , nice idea, I have done something similar already
    http://www.xsimulator.net/community...placement-sim-updated-photos-19-11-2013.3822/
    Motors near the feet in this case and I made motor/frame connections about the height of the top of my feet. So the motors were about 700mm forward of pivot, and I found also they were about 225mm to the side for sway, meaning it was a compact unit for width , and had BIG roll and little pitch. No problem , a good profile sorted that out. It is just the motor were mounted in a bit narrow, thats all.
    For that one I used 25:1 boxes on the motors with 45mm CTC levers. Worked perfectly moving 110kg of driver (I am 85 kg).
    • Informative Informative x 2
  12. GoRacing

    GoRacing New Member

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    Ciao gigi finalmente un'altro italianoooo :cheers ho letto tutte le pagine di questo post è ho visto che stai costruendo la struttura come quella di kevin stessa cosa che voglio fare io :thumbs e poi usare simtools e a quanto pare le schede jrk 12v12 che sono le più veloci (questo e quello che ho capito...poi non saprei) solo che mi mancano le capacità in elettronica :blush .Quindi seguirò i passi in avanti che farai del tuo progetto perchè visto che parli la mia stessa lingua sicuramente riesco a comprendere molto meglio e più velocemente;) perchè l'inglese non è il mio forte:blush.Ti chiedo per favore se mi puoi aiutare a configurare il mio quando sarà il momento?per ora puoi farmi la lista della spesa che inizio ad ordinare tutti i componenti che servono?

    Ti ringrazio in anticipo Ernesto:)

    English

    Hello gigi finally another italianoooo: cheers I've read all the pages of this post is that I have seen are building a structure like that of kevin same thing I want to do: thumbs and then use simtools and apparently the cards that are jrk 12v12 the faster (this is what I understand ... then I do not know) just that I lack the skills in electronics: blush. then follow the steps forward that you will do your project because they saw that speak the same language certainly I can understand a lot better and faster;) because English is not my forte: blush.Ti ask you please if you can help me to configure my own when the time comes? for now you can get me a shopping list that goes back to order all the components needed?
    Thank you in advance Ernesto :)
  13. bsft

    bsft

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    @GoRacing , please start a new thread here http://www.xsimulator.net/community/forums/diy-motion-simulator-projects.22/ outlining what you are building and we can suggest and go from there. FYI Arduino 8 bit controller, JRK 12 bit controller. Ard, need a code, JRK , no codes and less wires.
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  14. GoRacing

    GoRacing New Member

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    @bsft The problem that I have not built anything yet as soon as I have time now to start with the structure but I was advised to first build a model for imparare.Quando I'll have a better idea even I'll open a new thread
  15. bsft

    bsft

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    @GoRacing , start a new thread anyway, even if its for a scale model of the planned build. You have been told twice now to do so.
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  16. GoRacing

    GoRacing New Member

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    ok. me scassat è pall;)
  17. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    I asked this question to david but probably it might be interest for all user:
    I bought the two motors that david suggested me. I bought these one:
    http://www.ebay.it/itm/351066992384?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
    The supplier wrote me that if I want is also available the same motor with 50:1 ratio instead 25:1. Do you think is better 50:1? more torque? I read that David used 25:1 with 40mm lever so I could use 50:1 with the same lever (to have more torque but less rpm) or if it should be too slow use a longer lever and obtain the more rpm but the torque similar to your (25:1) lever obtain . I think that If I use 25:1 but I need more torque it will difficoult reduce the length of the lever which is already 40mm, but If I use 50:1 and I need more velocity is easier install a longer lever. What do you think?
  18. bsft

    bsft

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    this will depend on your weight, how much the actual frame will weigh, seat weight, and also where do you plan to mount the motors.
    @eaorobbie explained motor mounting as did I .
    Do you have a motor placement worked out yet?
  19. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Issue you will have is if you double the 40mm lever to 80mm on the 50:1 box you will end up with about the same torque as the 25:1 had but will gain more speed and overall throw.

    I use a 65mm lever on my seatmover design but only use about 76 deg of the 180 deg to keep the overall throw to the 80mm I require, this almost doubles my overall reaction speeds, but with this setup small 6n wipers would do the same job, just not fast enough to please me. So I use 150rpm but only use a portion of its turn. I did the same on my winch setup years ago but ran 185mm levers to gain a massive 20 deg motion, way to extreme for racing I found, for me, spent too long trying to hold on but by only using a portion of the 180 deg , I could dial in some impressive speeds with a slow but very torquey motor, it a balance game.

    What I recommend is to have multiply holes in the lever and extendable connecting rods to allow you to find the best results. This way you can easily tailor the movements and speed to what you want and to me if the driver on top is impressed , then ya got it right, most of our sims are really different and the flexibility of SimTools allows us to tailor our sim to what we want, not what is right or wrong.
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  20. gigi

    gigi Active Member

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    Yes sure!
    In any case as at the moment i haven't decided where put the motors i think is better buy the 50:1 ratio and use a