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My new sim - Prosimu T1000 3DOF

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by mirkobastianini, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    @Onaflyer, could you please share a picture of how OMP harness is attached to T1000 frame? I assume you just use one of the unused seat mount holes? Thanks.
  2. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    Well guys, physical part of my build is nearly over, minus cables strapped (still need to figure out best wheel/seat pos) and possibly fans installed in an enclosure, other than that done. Thanks for all the pictures, and advice.

    While initial impressions are sometimes influenced by the novelty, they are highly valuable as well, because they show by just how much one just improved his sim experience compared to previous. So, I'd like to share my initial impressions, in case someone wonders what T1000 3DOF has to offer over racing with FFB alone.

    My impressions are from my primary sim - rFactor 2. I am also planning to give ACC a chance, if Kunos implements all the features they promised. I am still using default settings suggested by Patrick and software fine tuning is the next step.

    The bottom line: my experience with T1000 3DOF and SimTools has been very positive so far. A bit of first impressions:

    I expected mere g-forces (that's pretty much what I experienced with Forza + 15k system in a showroom), but I was surprised what I experienced:
    • Connection to the road surface, every bump is felt, feels like you are riding on a surface, instead of hovering on it
    • When car loses grip, it is felt in the system, even before it is felt in FFB. This is in my opinion largely thanks to third actuator, which to me seems significant step up from two.
    • When car jumps it is felt in the system
    • When wheel loses touch with the surface, and lands back, again it is felt
    • Off/on curb feels amazing, you can feel vehicle jumps on/off
    • When tires jump on tarmac losing grip again it is felt
    • Lastly, collisions are pretty unpleasant, that’s how they should be Even curb on/off is sometimes unpleasant (realistic).
    • I was also impressed with the materials used.
    • Aside from corner case crash in SimTools, Simtools and drivers has been flawless, zero glitches.
    The only negatives are a bit of flex in the steering wheel. Also, instruction manual was confusing especially for 3DOF, but that's very minor, I am picking hair.

    If anyone has questions about my build, feel free to ask.

    Update1:
    * what keeps amazing me is how precise this system is. I was planning on getting SimVibe, but honestly I am beginning to feel like there's almost no point in doing it. Of course, you can't tell each of the four wheels individually, but I am really surprised at fidelity. Also, I never cared before, but now quality of track matters.

    * I keep being surprised how well SimTools work. Have not had a single issue nor with hardware nor software. Also, SimTools work makes sense and is intuitive.

    * I can't get enough of surge/sway, this is due to fairly limited range of motion. But I knew what I was getting into, and precision is much more important to me than system that throws me around on a sea saw.

    IMG_20181202_105940.jpg IMG_20181202_110019.jpg
    Untitled2.jpg IMG_20181202_110008.jpg IMG_20181202_110034.jpg Untitled.jpg
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018 at 00:44
  3. Onaflyer

    Onaflyer Member

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    IMG_20181202_150305712.jpg Nice setup Wolf. I keep fine tuning mine and love it.

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  4. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    Really appreciate, I can see how to better attach harness now.

    Are you running 60/60/60/60/20 axes or you try to keep them close to 100% as per guidelines on this site?
  5. Thug

    Thug New Member

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    Yes, I am still trying to see if someone can give me the exact measurements of the system.
    I am restricted to space and want to know what size I will need.
    What will be even better is if you can show a photo of a tape measure in place.
    I am not bothered about the board, just the rig.
  6. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yeah, I was restricted too, so I can understand you. It is 39 by 46 inch, prosimu site specs are correct there:


    Space Requirements
    Dimensions: Length 1.20m (46") Width 47cm (18") Height 1m06 (41") Width near actuators (99cm - 39")

    Note that system tilts and in case of 3DOF rear part moves, so you need a bit more in width. I'll measure my board, it is a bit wider than absolute minimum. Also, system pitches a bit, so length, as especially at the top of the seat needs to have a bit of extra, otherwise you'll hit wall.

    Update: @Thug I'd say you need at least 2 inches on each side of extra space on sides for sideways motion. Length needs even more, depends on how inclined is seat.
    • Winner Winner x 1
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  7. Thug

    Thug New Member

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    Excellent, thanks for that.
    I think I will have trouble fitting it under my desk as the bottom connecting bars on the table legs are not wide enough so will need to do some rearranging in my room.
  8. Giorgio73

    Giorgio73 Alluminium rig with prosimu 3dof kit

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    congratulations for the excellent work.
    the deflection of the steering wheel may be due to the fact that the steering wheel is supported by a single support.
    once you've found the right position, you could strengthen it with another medium.
    maybe you can use aluminum profiles.
  9. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks Giorgio. I saw Onaflyer's solution for strenghtening, however, I am a bit puzzled here, because to me it seems like it is not the big square arm that flexes, it is that thinner/weaker top part that holds the wheel. Drilling poses too much risk I'll ruin the frame. Drilling holes for CSW base alone took me half a day and 3 broken bits, which is not a bad thing, speaks good of steel used :) I'll probably have to live with it, or, maybe not :D

    Do you happen to have opinion on SCN6 actuator controller boxes cooling? What would be the safe operating temps in your opinion? They don't get very hot, but sometimes get quite warm and I am trying to understand if active cooling is necessary, or is it a waste of effort, time and money.

    Update: Patrick sent me SCN6 technical info and basically I know my answer - env temp for controllers should be below 40C
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  10. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    @Onaflyer, in iMG_20181202_150240052.jpg you attached central piece of harness to the base platform, right? Did you do that so that harness tightens when system pitches forward?

    I am actually wondering if I could use some spring to attach that part to that platform, so that when system pitches forward harness tightens, but that might affect system balance. Anyone has thoughts on this?
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    It has been a common practice across a range of different sims to use springs that way, it is the most simplist form of harnes tensioning.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    Any suggestion for the actual spring to use? I am considering this off Amazon:

    KUST sjq23301 Auto Trunk Spring Lifting Device Fit for Any Vehicle No Hydraulic Support,Pack of 2 pcs Adjustable Springs

    but it might be too strong. I suspect I need something that expands fairly easily, otherwise balance will get messed up.

    Edit: actually scratch that, I'll just pick some weak springs from Home Depot and that should do better.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  13. Onaflyer

    Onaflyer Member

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    Yes, I have it screwed into the base. I tried multiple springs and just couldn't get it to feel good. I do think springs would still work well but ultimately I will go with an active tensioner system.
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  14. Giorgio73

    Giorgio73 Alluminium rig with prosimu 3dof kit

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    Yes, electronic devices should work at temperatures below 40 degrees. They can work even above 40 degrees but their life is shortened significantly. Proper cooling guarantees better use and longer life.
    I advise you not to put the devices in a closed box. The heat generated by the devices remains there, remove at least the cover.
    I advise you to cool the devices with extra fans so as to extend their life.
    Consider when it's summer, the room temperature rises and does not help the electronic devices.
    In the past I had problems with the steering wheel because with long driving sessions it was too hot. I solved the problem with two fans.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    sorry for being nitpicky guys, but one more question on physical aspect of T1000 3DOF. Mine came without rubber inserts depicted the picture attached. I currently have ~2mm rubber sheet in there. What is the purpose of this material, is it to prevent skid or is it damping to reduce impact, or just for sound reduction purposes? And, what would you suggest as a replacement?

    Capture.PNG
  16. Giorgio73

    Giorgio73 Alluminium rig with prosimu 3dof kit

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    I think the rubber is used not to damage the actuator shaft.Without rubber, one would have metal against metal.I think it helps to reduce the noise too.
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  17. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Mine came with rubber feet, but they are rigid and solid. I imagine adding some layer of soft rubber into well will reduce actuator stress on motion stop. just do not want to loose those sweet precise details this system recreates so well :)
  18. Giorgio73

    Giorgio73 Alluminium rig with prosimu 3dof kit

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    you can try to put some thin rubber a little softer. see if you get an advantage without losing feelings.

    you can post the axis setting parameters. The actuators should arrive this week or next week.
    thank you.
  19. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I replaced rubber with softer material but I am loosing too much detail. I wish I knew one thing: axes already limited to 85%, so is there still benefit for actuator life to soften the impact on stop? My priority is maximum details, but of course not at cost of killing front actuators in a year or so.

    Regarding Axis, I am using Patrick's suggested values, if you still need them let me know. Those values are not mathematically correct, because axes should be ~100% allocated, but in case of his defaults it is close to 300%. It feels great though. In a way, it is pretty much like high min force with FFB, there's clipping but low forces are very detailed. I will experiment with mathematically correct settings but did not get to it yet.

    I am currently trying to extract more Surge DOF on braking/acceleration (and Sway too), but I am getting a feeling T1000 does not have enough of motion range here, which is not a big deal really, because details is what is most important to me. I modified my setup to use spring on seat harness, and trying to get more tension in harness on braking :)
  20. Giorgio73

    Giorgio73 Alluminium rig with prosimu 3dof kit

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    I'm interested in the part concerning the axis setting and the interface setting.
    if you can post some sceenshot I would be grateful
    I also confirm that the scn6 should be limited to 80-85% to avoid the risk of reaching the limit switch. there is the risk of damaging them.