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Showroom My Joyrider Project Comes to a Life

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by value1, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. adgun

    adgun Member

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    My advice: go bsft way
    dont forget the reaction time from those clutches, they must be very fast!
  2. stowaway

    stowaway New Member

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    Wow, it is very loud!

    are you looking at ways to improve that?
  3. bsft

    bsft

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    Weld the clutches up....for better reaction time
    Turn up the volume....the winches are loud....get used to it...
    Any joyrider is built like that, middle frame is low down, just scour the threads and you will see details.
    Cheers , David.
  4. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    Some update on my project.
    I have installed the second axis (roll). Instead of a chain drive I (remember the hilarious backlash ;)) I designed a lever drive.
    Roll.jpg
    (The steel cable is a bandaid to limit the roll to less than 36°.)
    Unfortunately the combination of weight (180 kg including the pilot), centre of gravity (above the axes) and the power of the winch is not good enough to allow to move the joyrider sufficiently and it even stalls in the end positions (left and right) :(
    It looks like the backlash of the lever drive is not any better than the chain drive. And the backlash even grows as the gears wear (really soft steel of the winch gear!).
    At least the design allows a nice placement of the potentiometers in the axis of rotation rather than somewhere on the winch. This should allow me better control of the movement – in theory.
    Potentiometer.jpg Pitch.jpg
    Thanks to the hint of pippo978 to SketchyPhysics, I have drawn a dynamic model of my sim.
    Simulation.jpg
    You'll need Google Sketchup and SketchyPhysics to display and move the sim.
    SimPlatform (Google Sketchup skp file).zip
    I'll have to resolve the issue with the lack movement – probably go back to the drawing board...
  5. bsft

    bsft

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    Nice design there, I still suggest lowering the middle frame to improve centre of gravity though, that may help increase movement.
  6. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  7. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    Sometimes I wonder, how the eff you guys have ever completed your sims! :)
    Tonight after the whole day in the workshop I realise that with the new low-axes-construction (→ add the extra tubes, move the drives, replace the sensors, etc. etc. etc.) my racing seat, that fitted nicely on the platform before, is now too wide (or the platform too narrow of course).
    So I will have to cut the sim in half and broaden it a few cm.
    Goodness!
    (Still big fun anyway :D)
  8. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    Yes, I did some basic FE calculation of my original design and the outcome was that by no means I would be able to move the platform more than a few degrees with the winch motors. So I decided to follow the advice of several of you and go through a redesign. The axes now pass through the centre of gravity rather than below it. It meant that I had to add tubes all over.
    Vergleich.jpg Overview V1.1.jpg
    With this much more balanced design the forces of the winches are matching the load of the platform :D
    I have uploaded two videos:
    One on the famous great Klausenpass

    the other on my favourite Dirt2 Croatia track

    The roll axis in curves feels great! The acceleration/deceleration didn't convince me yet. One thing I noticed: there is hardly any shaking when driving over uneven ground.
    Someone has a sugestion how to improve this?
    (I probably should start reading the x-sim manual :D)
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  9. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    Here some comparison date of the telemetry extracted from rFactor, the output of x-Sim² and the actual reaction of my sim (measured with a 6DOF sensor).
    Acceleration.png
    Centrifugal.png
    The measured values match the x-sim² data nicely for the two controlled axes (X and Y axis). Obviously the maximum acceleration is not yet reached as I have not fully calibrated the platform. I should be able to reach 0.6 g with maximum displacement.
    The vertical accelerations don't match yet - looks like random data. The x-sim² output is much more dynamic than the actual movement of the sim:
    Vertical.png
    One actually misses the feeling of the cobblestone pavement in the first two curves of Klausenpass.
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  10. kubing

    kubing Member

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    you have pitch and roll axis there. how did you get vertical acceleration?
  11. bsft

    bsft

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    Hey, you have done real well there! I would suggest move the pitch motor (next to you) off the axis point and further back for leverage effect and you will get some nasty motion 8) , a suggestion would be to mount the motor something like this [​IMG]

    Otherwise, real great job, good to see you are enjoying it!
    Ok, for vertical (bumps), set the profiler to auto max adjust, go for a short drive on the game like, 200-500m, exit , and then untick auto adjust, go back into the game with vertical and then get shaken up! Then change the number in there up or down as you need till you get a decent motion, and also reduce the percentage of effect from 100% down. This way you should pick up a small number to give you a good vibration of bumps as you travel. Sort that and you will be shuddering in no time. By the way, every car and every race will feel different, so unless you plan to do separate profiles for each vehicle, remember that the stadium trucks may feel slushy and not to bumpy compared to trailblazer. But hey, its still fun! DOnt be surprised if the bumps disappear if you go onto tarmac, mostly I get that, but am soon back on dirt!
    Cheers, David.
  12. tronicgr

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    Man... these motors are so noisy!!! I just had some time to watch it with sound and my cat left the room... :lol:
    I believe the winch motors are even more loud than SCN5 ... !!

    For more shaking in uneven ground, mix in the acceleration/decceleration axis a percentage of HEAVE motion axis (axis Z on some games).
    I did that for my joyrider and got lots of vibration and up and down motion cause of the flexing of the PVC of my joyrider. Try it, you may get at least some better feel of the bumps of the road...

    See my joyrider doing the bumps back in 2007 using my old Basic Stamp2 motion controller:

    Pay attention after the minute 3:00, it gets really bumpy!!

    Thanos
  13. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    Hi kubing,
    Not quite sure if I understand your question right. The vertical acceleration is just a result of the lateral and longitudinal axes moving. I try to simulate (ha, ha!) the simulation (ha,ha!) of the vertical movements LOL. Either I can improve the feeling of the bumps and cobblestone with the profile (see Thanos' and bsft's comments above) or I'll install something like a butkicker.
    Thank you for the flowers.
    And thank you for the good hints how to simulate the simulation :) I'll try them like I've tried so many valuable tricks from you before!
    When you listen carefully: The motors are shouting for headphones!
    To be honest, I might exchange them at some point with something quieter. For the moment they serve my purpose nicely.
    Also a big thanks to you for your tips and the video link. I will try these trips as well.

    Next steps are actually replacing the potentiometers with hall sensors, disassemble the seat, paint it nicely and add some protective sheets, so that one can't jam his extremities between the frames.
  14. bsft

    bsft

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    vertical force should be in the drop down list in the force sender - extractor, when you add a 1.1 output, look for vertical.
  15. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    ______________________________________________________________
    Fri 13. Jul 2012, 21:59

    It's a mixture of all different kinds of thoughts I leverage from the forum here. Thank you all, guys, for your help and your projects shared!
    After all I plan now to use 2 wiper motors driven by jrk's (too lazy/busy/scared for Tronic's AMC motor motion-controller with pwm/servo output)
    The screen shall be attached to the inner frame as well as the seat. The theoretical pitch angle is 30°, which is 0.5g. Let's see what the motors can stem.
    The motors shall pull 2 steel cables connected to the inner and outer frame. Geometric details still to be worked out.
    I will keep you posted about the progress.
    Thomas


    Here some pics of the metal frame.
    Base Frame.JPG
    Base frame
    Outer Frame.jpg
    Outer Frame, side acceleration (roll), 18.4 kg
    Inner Frame.jpg
    Inner Frame, acceleration, braking (pitch), 16.7 kg
    Assembled Frames.JPG
    Assembled frames
    Axis with integrated cogwheel.JPG
    Axis with integrated cogwheel
    Fixture of potentiometer.JPG
    Fixture of potentiometer (pitch)
    Screen Frame.jpg
    Screen Frame, 14.4 kg
    Seat and pedals.JPG
    Seat (6.7 kg) and pedals (5.3 kg) on OSB (Oriented Strand Board, 14.2 kg)

    I'm finishing the assembly and the wiring. Next will be the electrics and electronis.

    ______________________________________________________________
    Sat 14. Jul 2012, 15:40

    For today just another picture. The sim is moving again after being disassembled for refurbishment for several weeks!
    I haven't any video footage as 1/ I didn't have time and 2/ even if I had had time I I'm not yet satisfied with the movements. In Dirt 2 it was semi-ok, in rFactor just crap. The tripplescreen is fantastic!
    Overview2.JPG Overview.JPG
    Overview all assembled (and moving)

    The white box right to the steering wheel is my emergency stop. It just cuts off the 12 V power from the jrks. The grey box on the left on the floor is the two jrks with a blower. And yes, the cables need clean up

    ______________________________________________________________
    Sun 16. Sep 2012, 17:01


    The lateral movement (left, right in curves) is fantastic and increases the game immersion drastically. You can virtually feel the curves and have physical feedback about how far you can go. I have improved my driving via this feedback :)
    The longitudinal movement is not so satisfactory yet. Too much backlash and therefore see-saw. I will change the chain drive with some lever drive I guess. Also because there is normally no rotation while accelerating or braking, it doesn't feel so right (and probably never will).

    I calculated the 3D balance point numerically. And included some additional mounting points in case I wanted to higher or lower the axes.
    Indeed, at some point I may also add a bass shaker for the finer movements like when driving over roadkill ;)
    BTW: The joyrider design allows you normally to have much wider tilt angles than the other designs.

    ______________________________________________________________
    Fri 19. Oct 2012, 22:00

    Finally some footage:

    The video is so dark because I'm using these projectors and therefore must run the sim in the dark.
    Also if you don't see the walls moving the game immersion is much better

    ______________________________________________________________
    Thu 15. Nov 2012, 18:20

    I am using the Dell Projector M110.
    • The previous 40 monitor was 13.3 kg, the monitor holding frame 7.2 kg. For a tripplescreen this would be around 60 kg!
    • Now the whole frame for the tripplescreen is 14.4 kg + 4.2 kg for the three white PVC boards. Some of this weight is offset by the 1.2 kg (3x400gr) for the projectors behind the seat. Cost wise both options are about the same.
    • Because I have the simulator in my dark garage, there is no light shining onto the screen, distorting the picture. So you have to make sure that your simulator is also in a room with little light.
    • While the projector has a slider for focus it has no zoom function. So you can adjust the size/diameter of the picture only via the distance of the projectors. Or in other words, if the distance of your projectors to the screen is given, the size of the projection is also fixed.
    • The projector also has no picture rotation function so I had to turn them upside down, because the projection direction is a little bit upwards.

    ______________________________________________________________
    Fri 12. Apr 2013, 12:08

    … I am using winches (Arwin TRC9202, 1'000 kg traction) instead of wipers. The maximum power output of the winch motors is about 2x the maximum power output of my wipers. So the difference is significant.
    Also the winches are solid built (all steel, no plastic), have a big gear rate (reduction down to 14 RPM in my case) and therefore have a big torque which allows them to rotate the construction easily.

    I am using two Einhell BT-BC 30. They suit my needs and have V- and A- meters built-in. However you can also use a 850W PC power supply.

    I am using 2 JRK’s. They are so easy to connect.
    If you want to enjoy the fun of building your own controller, go for the AMC. If you intend to buy the electronics, you’re far better served with the JRK than with the VM110N/Sabertooth 2X12. The price is similar, especially if you compare the same currents (Sabertooth 2X25 V2); the JRK can easily handle 25A if you keep it cool. And BTW, according to sirnoname “K8055 are ONLY for pneumatic and hydraulik, they are not really usable for electric motors!

    I'm currently experimenting with these motors because they are even stronger and faster. More to come…

    ______________________________________________________________




    • Like Like x 4
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  16. aarondc

    aarondc Member

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    That projectors + screen setup is brilliant. Do you mind sharing some stats - lumens output, etc?
  17. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    You can find the Tech Specs there ;)
  18. aarondc

    aarondc Member

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    I just scrolled down and saw the link. oops! Thanks!!
  19. JBoogie

    JBoogie Member

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    @value1, would you mind sharing what kind of casters/bearings you used for the axis? Did you use a caster as the joyrider plans call for or something else?

    Thanks!
  20. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Hi @JBoogie
    This is the wheel I used:
    Rollen.jpg.jpg
    I removed the wheel, folded the wheel flaps flat and welded it to the structure.
    The idea is actually from @tronicgr
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