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My 2-3DOF Scale build Basics - get up and running?

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by John458, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    From the success of @SixDegreesOfFlight and his actuators I am going build a couple myself, (putting together a thread on this also) a bit smaller with 200mm throw instead of 400mm. Also looking at using the sabertooth 2x32 and keeping it 12v as I don't want to get into batteries and complicate things.

    @SixDegreesOfFlight would this motor be sufficient for the actuators?

    https://www.motiondynamics.com.au/12v-350w-4500-rpm-straight-dc-motor.html
  2. SixDegreesOfFlight

    SixDegreesOfFlight Well-Known Member

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    @John458
    Those were the motors I was originally going to get. With the 31A draw current it is just within spec of the 2x32 which is designed to work with motors up to 32A continuous but can cope with peaks double that. The advantage of that motor is that it would be easier to mount than the one I used because you won't have to cut out the 80mm hole for the fan. I used a 24V one with a 2x60 to 'over engineer' the issues that @SilentChill had reported with his rig using 2x32. The disadvantage is that if they are driven hard they may get hot and you will need to prepare for some fans to cool them down - something that my ones have built in. This is a critical decision as there are all kinds of 'knock-on' effects once you choose and buy them. Using batteries is cumbersome with weight, wiring, space etc. Not sure if my reply really helps but you need to consider all the constraints before taking the plunge.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast @Pit @RufusDufus or anyone else that may be able to help.

    I have attached SMC settings as well

    Just had a quick question, been searching around for game engine settings as I have been testing my rig for the first time today with LFS.

    So just testing my 2DOF with live for speed and using the sway or extra1 setting and everything moves but it never goes back to centre.. for example if you turn left the motors move left but then stay there they don't return to physical center..so the move you turn left it the more it keeps moving the platform left until you run out of physical limits.

    How do I get the motor to move left and then when the turn is finished in the game it centers back?

    I have been playing around with washout and smoothing but cant figure it out

    Cheers

    Attached Files:

  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    If it is a 2DOF just use sway.

    Can you please post pictures of your all your SimTools settings.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    First check SMC3 only if manual moving works. PWMmax=30 is very low, too low for my motors at least. If SMC3 shows no issue you can shift to SimTools.
  6. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @Pit and @noorbeast

    Thanks so much for your quick response, yes I have checked it in SMC3 at PWMmax=30 (its not really carrying a load at the moment) so it moves slowly but no problem back and forth, and I am only testing 1 motor at a time as I go to remove any potential errors from me. I have three motors setup and they all work (well expect I have blown one side of my monster moto on one motor so it only goes one way at the moment, so I have switched to the second motor to play with first whilst I solder up another moto later)

    So it also goes back and forth (manually by me) when I test it using the simtools engine with the output testing DOF on.

    so it must be in the axis setup I think...

    here are my setups (one motor and one DOF sway) I had the filters on zero and then tried some random settings on washout and smoothness to try and figure out what Im doing wrong. so here ya go :)

    Attached Files:

  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Can you confirm if it moves ok in output testing.

    LFS has to be run before patching. If you did not do so then unpatch, run a lap or two in LFS, close it then repatch.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
  8. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    ok @noorbeast that might be the problem ill give that a go with re-patching :) cheers

    Not sure what you mean about confirming in output testing... I can get it to move through simtools output testing by moving the slider with my mouse?

    in the meantime also here is a simple design pic of my rig...saw another person do this with a centre wheel under the whole system..it has 2 support wheels as well (not depicted with no motors attached)

    So basically I have centered the wheel physically and then have been expecting it to go left or right with the sway DOF and then always come back to the centre. but if you turn left.. it moves left then stops and then if you turn left again it moves even further out etc... it only starts to come back if I go right..but 3 left turns and its all over ha ha.

    Do i need to attach some sort of sensors?

    plan to use it for flying as well like a simple rudder feeling left and right


    Simple Design.jpg
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    If you go into Output Testing and start it you should then be able to move the axis with the slider.
  10. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @noorbeast

    Cheers ok I have done that - here are the results

    Under DOF Output testing when I move the sway slider to the left and right of centre it moves left or right like it should.. however..

    not sure if this is anything but if I move it to say to the left -21 (for example random number) and let the slider go... it moves a bit then stops, it doesn't just continue to move to the left forcing me to stop it with the "CLR" button like the axis testing does

    When I test under Axis output a - it moves left and right no problem and will continue to move unless i stop it with the slider going back to "0" or clicking on the "CLR" button

    Hope that makes sense
  11. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    If it moves in Output Testing then it is most likely LFS was patched without first being run. Running LFS first generates some file that are needed.
  12. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    hmm... I did what you suggested before and unpatched LFS .. launched LFS and then did a couple of painful keyboard laps ha ha... then repatched ... same problem.

    i'll give it another go thou, i might have missed shutting down the game manager and client after unpatching.... failing that I brought a Sim tools licence and registered it as well, so I will try x-plane as well and see what happens.
  13. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Short comment about SimTools, don't use washout for now, especially if you don't know what to do with it, I suggest not to use any filters as long as you don't get your rig properly working.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    Addendum: just test axis output only.
  15. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @Pit @noorbeast

    axis testing works fine the wheel goes back and forth.

    Next unpatched LFS launched it ...then repatched using "sway" the wheel moves left and right as it should but doesn't automatically go back to the center point after turning.

    Not sure if I explained this centering issue very well and maybe I am expecting it to do something automatically that it doesnt do.

    So for example the seat rolls left as you are turning left..which is fine and then stops when you stop turning which is fine, but I need it to automatically always return the seat to the original physical center postion everytime after it moves left or right.

    Hope that makes sense... in the mean time i will try xplane :)
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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  17. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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  18. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Traction loss is for the wheel you mentioned, as I gather that is what it is.

    You can use filters such as Washout for bringing an axis back, but I really don't get what you are trying to do, as you would not normally do that for a race game with sway, though you would do that with a flight game for roll.
  19. John458

    John458 Member Gold Contributor

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    Hmm yes I am trying to do what your saying with the roll function.. have it come back to the centre. for example after say rolling to the right in a plane.. the wheel returns back to the centre (of my rig) and you then you can roll right again without running out of the physical limits of the system. (as it keeps putting you back to centre) or if you are doing a 360 roll.. the motor wheel rolls right (so you feel the roll to the right) and then when you stop rolling the physical rig returns to center again ready for the next roll.

    With the driving I'm trying to do the same thing with say you go around a corner in real life and the car forces you to the left (or right) in the seat. Thats what the wheel should do roll left or right an inch or 2 so you feel like you have been forced to the left or the right.

    and then when you finish the turn the rig (motor wheel) should return to centre of the rig ready for the next corner.

    Hope that makes a bit more sense..
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    When properly set up sway will return when the game data dictates, there is no need to use the likes of Washout.

    For flight you can use Washout and Smoothing also works pretty well.