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Showroom Motorcycle 4 DoF Motion sim

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Chris_Beeves, Sep 10, 2021.

  1. Arturo Cipriano

    Arturo Cipriano New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    That is why I canceled the lateral leaning and only left the Pich and Sourge, with the manual leaning and one Encoder I give the direction, and the handlebar also moves the leaning through pulleys, so you get a more real driving effect…..I had told you.

    But if you get a good driving sensation through programming, I will also try it to see if it convinces me…..for now I have not found anything better than what I have……
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  2. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    It does. Just enough to keep the resulting force pointed at the virtual tire contact patch.

    The rider is tracked by the VR positioning. If I find in the long run that it doesn’t do the trick good enough, load cells might be an option.
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  3. Erik Middeldorp

    Erik Middeldorp Member

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    Why not by leaning it?
    I've got a Thrustmaster Freestyler bike handlebar controller, it can switch between leaning to turn and turning to turn. Leaning feels the most believable to me testing it in GP Bikes both in VR and flatscreen.
    I know that irl you have to turn to balance/lean a bike but GP Bikes (and every other bike sim I've tried) seems fundamentally flawed to me in how they're modelling the bike leaning/balance. I think until you have a bike sim that actually models it realistically, just make do with what feels the most believable.
    I have a thought that maybe you could do arduino code so that the steering input worked kind of like a mouse 'pointing stick'/nipple thing. So you countersteer to get the bike to lean, but then you don't have to hold the countersteer to keep it leaning.
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  4. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    What the freestyler does is what I would call ‘swivel’. A great compromise!

    What you are describing is exactly what I am doing with the new torque bars, exciting times!
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  5. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Well-Known Member

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  6. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Force and displacement kind of go hand in hand, but yeah i totally agree.
    My new torque bars make more sense than most other control types I’ve tried. I’ve had to turn off force feedback for now, but working an alternative.
    Best so far was the old hardcore mode in GPbikes, that was nice..
  7. Erik Middeldorp

    Erik Middeldorp Member

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    In case you haven't seen it, Live for Speed added experimental motorcycle support including the ability to design your own bikes (https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/96435). I haven't tried it myself because motorcycles are only available as mods and you need their S3 licence to use mods. But the motorcycle physics look interesting, particularly in this video: https://youtube.com/shorts/jbplBjPMGXQ
    I read somewhere on their forum that they've modelled the steering so there's a transition between slow speed and higher speed steering. The above video is the best looking low speed motorcycle physics I've seen in a game. I'm still contemplating whether I want to spend the £36 (works out to around NZD$70 for me) just to try it.
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  8. Erik Middeldorp

    Erik Middeldorp Member

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    update to my previous post, I bought LFS. While it does feel like the bike is balancing at low speed, it isn't actually countersteering. It's still turn right to go right etc and smoothly transitions to turn right to lean right. I've only very briefly tried it, it feels ok, maybe even good as far as motorcycle games go. But not what I think I want in a simulator.
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  9. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
    After testing load sensitive handlebars both solid mounted and on servos, it has really sunk in that controlling a bike with any type of steer angle just isn’t going to be good. Lean, like the freestyler gp mode is more intuitive since you’re mimicking an actual pose. But the steer angle is dictated by the bike and the bike speed, lean angle, acceleration and many more things. One specific angle can mean many different things, so using it to turn is just wrong.

    In real life you steer a bike by shifting your body weight and shifting the bikes weight by applying force to the handlebars.
    So for simulation, that’s what I need to work with.
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  10. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    And after testing that theory on a few people, I realize I was jumping to conclusions once again. :) Apparently it’s not that simple (this time either).

    I thought;
    Since physics dictates how a motorcycle is controlled, a controller that simulates countersteering will be intuitive even for people who don’t know that they actually are countersteering.
    That’s very wrong.

    Back to the drawing board for “average mode”. Racer mode is awesome!
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2023
  11. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Considering adding a surge dof..
    You guys that have it, would you say it’s worth it?
    I was thinking of putting the whole thing on tracks pretty much and just put a motor in the back.
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    The challenge with a traditional surge axis is that it is limited by its length, so sustained surge is difficult.

    I am wondering if a small surge axis moving the handle bars a little, relative to the rider, may be an alternate possibility, generating a sustained cue at the wrists, just a thought.
  13. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Yeah, sustained surge and sway would require some serious space
    I’m just looking for the small push you get when changing gears and when taking off.
    Now I have pitch as output for surge. It works but there’s something missing.
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Snappy gear change effects can be simulated even on a 2dof using differentiated Max/Min values in the Tuning Center: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/snappy-gear-change-motion.121/
  15. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    I have that now. I want more! :)
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Then of course you need to move stuff relative to the user, I am just suggesting a tradition surge axis moving the whole rig is the only way to go.
  17. Allan Beaton

    Allan Beaton New Member

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    Hey Chris............so this is where you have been hiding!

    How is the rig going m8, Looks like your getting nearer to your goal.

    DD
  18. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    I hide poorly in a few places yeah! :D

    It’s going good! Haven’t had much time lately but ironed out a few quirks in the motion. I have a small to-do list though. I’m working on separating the wheelie from the pitch right now. Slooooowly.. And some hydraulic brakes stuff, but that is taking longer than expected. Ordered some parts from UK and it took forever to get here.
  19. Allan Beaton

    Allan Beaton New Member

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    I have loads of stauff I do not use anymore or have extra of so before you order stuff feel free to contact me and maybe can help out m8. PM me and will give direct contact info.
    Starting to work on motion too which is why I am here lol.
    I never done any motion so got a lot to learn and no clue lol
  20. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Let’s have a chat some time!