1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

Showroom Motorcycle 4 DoF Motion sim

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Chris_Beeves, Sep 10, 2021.

  1. Arturo Cipriano

    Arturo Cipriano New Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Barcelona, Spain
    Balance:
    - 38Coins
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Arduino
    That is why I canceled the lateral leaning and only left the Pich and Sourge, with the manual leaning and one Encoder I give the direction, and the handlebar also moves the leaning through pulleys, so you get a more real driving effect…..I had told you.

    But if you get a good driving sensation through programming, I will also try it to see if it convinces me…..for now I have not found anything better than what I have……
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    Balance:
    1,328Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    It does. Just enough to keep the resulting force pointed at the virtual tire contact patch.

    The rider is tracked by the VR positioning. If I find in the long run that it doesn’t do the trick good enough, load cells might be an option.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Erik Middeldorp

    Erik Middeldorp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    50
    Occupation:
    sheet metal worker
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Balance:
    580Coins
    Ratings:
    +41 / 0 / -0
    Why not by leaning it?
    I've got a Thrustmaster Freestyler bike handlebar controller, it can switch between leaning to turn and turning to turn. Leaning feels the most believable to me testing it in GP Bikes both in VR and flatscreen.
    I know that irl you have to turn to balance/lean a bike but GP Bikes (and every other bike sim I've tried) seems fundamentally flawed to me in how they're modelling the bike leaning/balance. I think until you have a bike sim that actually models it realistically, just make do with what feels the most believable.
    I have a thought that maybe you could do arduino code so that the steering input worked kind of like a mouse 'pointing stick'/nipple thing. So you countersteer to get the bike to lean, but then you don't have to hold the countersteer to keep it leaning.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    Balance:
    1,328Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    What the freestyler does is what I would call ‘swivel’. A great compromise!

    What you are describing is exactly what I am doing with the new torque bars, exciting times!
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,773
    Location:
    London
    Balance:
    10,785Coins
    Ratings:
    +417 / 8 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    Balance:
    1,328Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Force and displacement kind of go hand in hand, but yeah i totally agree.
    My new torque bars make more sense than most other control types I’ve tried. I’ve had to turn off force feedback for now, but working an alternative.
    Best so far was the old hardcore mode in GPbikes, that was nice..
  7. Erik Middeldorp

    Erik Middeldorp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    50
    Occupation:
    sheet metal worker
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Balance:
    580Coins
    Ratings:
    +41 / 0 / -0
    In case you haven't seen it, Live for Speed added experimental motorcycle support including the ability to design your own bikes (https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/96435). I haven't tried it myself because motorcycles are only available as mods and you need their S3 licence to use mods. But the motorcycle physics look interesting, particularly in this video: https://youtube.com/shorts/jbplBjPMGXQ
    I read somewhere on their forum that they've modelled the steering so there's a transition between slow speed and higher speed steering. The above video is the best looking low speed motorcycle physics I've seen in a game. I'm still contemplating whether I want to spend the £36 (works out to around NZD$70 for me) just to try it.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Erik Middeldorp

    Erik Middeldorp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2018
    Messages:
    50
    Occupation:
    sheet metal worker
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Balance:
    580Coins
    Ratings:
    +41 / 0 / -0
    update to my previous post, I bought LFS. While it does feel like the bike is balancing at low speed, it isn't actually countersteering. It's still turn right to go right etc and smoothly transitions to turn right to lean right. I've only very briefly tried it, it feels ok, maybe even good as far as motorcycle games go. But not what I think I want in a simulator.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    Balance:
    1,328Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
    After testing load sensitive handlebars both solid mounted and on servos, it has really sunk in that controlling a bike with any type of steer angle just isn’t going to be good. Lean, like the freestyler gp mode is more intuitive since you’re mimicking an actual pose. But the steer angle is dictated by the bike and the bike speed, lean angle, acceleration and many more things. One specific angle can mean many different things, so using it to turn is just wrong.

    In real life you steer a bike by shifting your body weight and shifting the bikes weight by applying force to the handlebars.
    So for simulation, that’s what I need to work with.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    Balance:
    1,328Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    And after testing that theory on a few people, I realize I was jumping to conclusions once again. :) Apparently it’s not that simple (this time either).

    I thought;
    Since physics dictates how a motorcycle is controller, a controller that simulates countersteering will be intuitive even for people who don’t know that they actually are countersteering.
    That’s very wrong.

    Back to the drawing board for “average mode”. Racer mode is awesome!
  11. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    Balance:
    1,328Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Considering adding a surge dof..
    You guys that have it, would you say it’s worth it?
    I was thinking of putting the whole thing on tracks pretty much and just put a motor in the back.
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    18,935
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    135,380Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,347 / 48 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The challenge with a traditional surge axis is that it is limited by its length, so sustained surge is difficult.

    I am wondering if a small surge axis moving the handle bars a little, relative to the rider, may be an alternate possibility, generating a sustained cue at the wrists, just a thought.
  13. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    Balance:
    1,328Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Yeah, sustained surge and sway would require some serious space
    I’m just looking for the small push you get when changing gears and when taking off.
    Now I have pitch as output for surge. It works but there’s something missing.
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    18,935
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    135,380Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,347 / 48 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Snappy gear change effects can be simulated even on a 2dof using differentiated Max/Min values in the Tuning Center: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/snappy-gear-change-motion.121/
  15. Chris_Beeves

    Chris_Beeves Active Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    239
    Balance:
    1,328Coins
    Ratings:
    +158 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I have that now. I want more! :)
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    18,935
    Occupation:
    Innovative tech specialist for NGOs
    Location:
    St Helens, Tasmania, Australia
    Balance:
    135,380Coins
    Ratings:
    +10,347 / 48 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Then of course you need to move stuff relative to the user, I am just suggesting a tradition surge axis moving the whole rig is the only way to go.