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yobuddy

Motion Simulation Software SimTools V2.4

SimTools Release Version

  1. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    The short answer is no, the plugins use the SimTools API, which is licensed to @yobuddy.

    Further, as you list 'sim devices' and 'motion cueing developer' as part of your occupation you need to contain your questions to the Commercial and Prototype section, along with making a disclosure as to your intentions: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/commercial-related-use-of-simtools-and-prototypes.173/
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. Etienne_GameSeed

    Etienne_GameSeed New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I don't want to use Simtools plugins inside my software, I want to plug my software to Simtools, so Simtools will still be necessary.
    I don't see any relation with commercial matter in this case, and the fact that I'm a game, hardware and motion cueing developer doesn't mean that this project is aiming any commercial use.
    If my intend was to rip all Simtools plugins and embed it in my software to sell it, I understand that it would be a problem and that it wouldn't respect the principle of simtools.
    My question is really about software, so I really don't understand why I should move it into a "Commercial simulators and prototype" section, which is obviously about hardware.
    Anyway, if you understood my question and my goal and the short answer is still "no", then there's no need to move it in another section.
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    When what you intend is directly related to what you do for a living @Etienne_GameSeed then it is reasonable that you make a full disclosure of what your goal actually is regarding your "own motion cueing software (or hardware)".

    The section indicated is not restricted to hardware, it is any commercial intent related to SimTools, even in the case of a DIY prototypes.
  4. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    @Etienne_GameSeed
    You must not have spent much time looking then because what you need to know is there. In fact, its probably one of the first things most people will learn about.

    Obviously, simtools must output data somehow in order to drive motion hardware, etc. So if your software is able to tap into one of the available output types then the answer is yes you can.

    I had already written my own motion software too before finding the xsimulator site. So I know what you are saying, you don’t need simtools motor controlling features, you just need telemetry. You can’t get actual raw telemetry from game titles thru simtools though because it attempts to standardize telemetry from different developers. Its still raw data but its just transformed for standardization.

    As a game developer you understand the need to protect your software from piracy and unauthorized use so you shouldn’t need to be told to have the same respect in regards to the software you can get on this site!

    In fact, if all companies felt the need to do as you have done with your software to protect it from unauthorized use, there would be no need for simtools anymore because all game developers would be striping telemetry from their games. Thanks for that, not, by the way!! At least I have an older demo of nitro stunt racing that still has telemetry output but don’t expect me to ever buy the full version since its useless to us now :mad:!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  5. Etienne_GameSeed

    Etienne_GameSeed New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I just asked a question. Sorry if I didn't spend the whole week looking for the answer or if the search engine couldn't find what I was looking for. noorbeast kindly answered, without aggressive tone.
    I'm surprised most people want to do what I asked for.
    I perfectly understand the need to protect from unauthorized commercial use, as I removed telemetry for Nitro Stunt Racing exactly for this reason (there has been real attempts, it's not paranoia).
    Believe me or not, I was really sorry to do that, as I knew this would be sad news for individuals that have their own simulator. But Nitro Stunt Racing is one of the very rare games that are used in simulation centres, and I'm not hiding the fact that it's an important part of my activity, so when I had to choose between continuing to improve this game an earn a (little) bit of money from it, and satisfying a very few lucky individuals that have a simulator at home, the choice was hard but quick to do.
    I've been thinking since then of an improved protection system (like the need to stay connected) to release an updated version for the public, even if I know that I will loose money doing that. Because I do games as a passion, for players, not to become rich (money is only involved so I can continue to live from my passion).
    Please don't compare me with companies that sells thousands or millions of units of their games, it's not fair.
    These companies don't care if there is some illegal commercial use of their software in simulation centres, this won't change their main source of income. They have teams of several to hundreds of people, I'm alone now.
    I don't understand why you say I didn't have any respect in regards to the software I can get on this site.

    So correct me if I'm wrong, but if I want to release a free software that would work with simtools, I need to post in the "Commercial and Prototype section", just because I'm a game developer ?
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  6. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    You have interests in commercial motion simulators and simulator games: http://www.gameseed.fr/cms/en

    That should have been disclosed up front, it is pertinent information for a DIY community.

    You also need to be clear about what you are intending, just because something may or may not be free software does not mean in could not infringe requirements here or have other commercially related benefits. You still have not outlined what you intend, in fact it seems that you are avoiding being specific.

    And yes because you have those commercial interests this does belong in the Commercial and Prototype section, that section exists as a clear delineation between the DIY community and those with commercial interests, including requiring those with a commercial interest to make a full disclosure. I doubt this community could make its expectations any clearer than that.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if I sounded aggressive but did you consider reading the documentation for simtools first since that is what your question was about? I don’t mind helping people but its sure nice if they try to help themselves first so we don’t have to repeat ourselves over and over answering basic questions.

    I perfectly understand why you felt the need to do this but as you said, its sad news so I don’t have to like it do I?

    Actually I meant the opposite! Since you are a software developer yourself there is no need to tell you to do what is proper.

    This question is not for me to answer. If you ask me the aggression here is focused on commercial entities and where they make post!
  8. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    Being a professional, requires only clarification on your project.
    If you intend to develop a free software working along with Simtools free software = love3.gif for DIY builders
    even though you have a business to run with your games or simulation center on the other hand (without Simtools).

    But if you wish to use Simtools for your simulation center, you have to find a commercial agreement.
  9. Etienne_GameSeed

    Etienne_GameSeed New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, 4DOF
    My profile name contains "Game Seed", I included in my profile the link to the website of my company. I'm not here hidden behind a fake profile.
    But I don't put a link to my company's website or explain what is my job in every new post I do because I consider that as advertising. I have no intend to do a commercial use with simtools neither in simulation centres that use Nitro Stunt Racing, nor in my own place.
    In fact I don't need to use simtools commercially in my activity, as my game engine already deals with most commercial simulators out there without the need of aditionnal motion cueing software.
    So I think you all got me wrong.
    The question I asked had nothing to do with my commercial activity. I would like individuals to benefit from the work I've done in motion cueing. I'm not selling motion cueing technology yet.
    And if I wanted to turn this into a commercial application, I would ask @yobuddy about how commercial licensing of simtools works, and if he agrees to this particular use.
    I feel so insulted, because you treat me as if I was dishonest or trying to hide my real intents, which is not the case.
    I've spent some time searching this site and the documentation before posting, maybe not enough time for you, but I could not find all the info I need.
    For example : how can I get the information on the type of surface each wheel is experiencing, if it is touching the ground, what vertical load it has ? That's the kind of information that some games give in their telemetry.
    But I'm not going to continue to discuss here about your approach with commercial entities, because it's a section about software, and because I'm very disappointed about your reactions, they are so negative !
    I don"t understand why you're so rude, it seems like you don't like commercial entities. I don't agree with your politics which consists of : you're working in the game/simulation business, so whatever your intents are, whatever your subject is, go to the "Commercial and Prototype section" and get lost in there.
    Good luck with your software suite, which I find very good and promising despite this feedback.
  10. vulbas

    vulbas Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, 6DOF
    gameseed is to help improve simtool.
    it started with my 6DOF. simtool is not suitable for 6DOF. we want to help it work even better.
    too bad. to deprive him of his skills.

    gameseed est la pour aider à ameliorer simtool.
    ça a demarrer avec mon 6dof. simtool n'est pas adapté au 6dof. il veux aider à ce qu'il fonctionne encore mieux.
    c'est dommage. de se priver de ses competences.
  11. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    I personally am sorry about being rude @Etienne_GameSeed! I usually just answer these types of questions. But because of the negativity exhibited here when a commercial entity is involved, I thought I might be ostracized by directly answering. I was treated the same way myself when I joined up here because I have aspirations someday of commercializing the simulator I developed (with no help from anyone here I might add). I am not negative against commercial entities myself although I do attempt to hold them accountable to their statements at times.

    But there are some members here that do exhibit negativity to commercial entities imo. I swear sometimes I think this site is run from a socialist or communist country. Its pretty funny really because without commercial entities most all of us would not be able to build a working rig, or have any games to use them with for that matter!

    With that said Ill say this once more. If anyone on this site is concerned that something they have posted will be used (or stolen in your minds) by a commercial entity or anyone else, the solution is simple; quit posting it then! Otherwise any information posted becomes public domain and can be used by anyone. They can’t patent anything you posted themselves however. But neither can you now either since its already been disclosed to the public!
  12. gorzasty

    gorzasty Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Guys is there any chance to add in the next version of Simtools the feature that allows us to drive G-Seats? Now we have to use strange methods to do it ;/ and it would be gr8 to have one panel for all our staff, isn't it? Next thing is the place for fan drive to simulate the winspeed in the Simtools software.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  13. ponte

    ponte New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    any chance of having the simtools ans simtools plugins available cross platform?

    thanks
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  14. prodigy

    prodigy Burning revs

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    Can someone from developers shad some light about Simtools 2? What can we expect, whats new, whats is in the works..
  15. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

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    @gorzasty can you elaborate a bit more about this issue, please? I don't see what you mean
  16. gorzasty

    gorzasty Active Member

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    Yes ofcourse. It would be great if Simtools has the option to setting up GSeat. Why it is now very hard or impossible? Because Simtools works only with symetrical movement for each axis. If we set 50% of movement range for surge it will surge 50% for accelerating the car and 50% for the brake. It's quite ok for seatmover (but in my opinion better solution would be to get control of + and - range to user separately). But GSeat works in a different way. If we accelerating Gseat has to push our back, but under brakeing nothing should happen ... that is why simtolls isn't prepared now for GSeats. My Gseat works thkans to @RufusDufus , who told me what to change in Arduino code to separate, and cancel some movement of the axis.

    So what we need in next version of simtools if we want to use our GSeats and don't mess up with arduino code, is to be able to set axis range independently for each side of the axis (+or -), not only range of the axis in both sides as we have today.

    Driveing the fan is obvious I think ;) If we going faster fan should spin faster, and if we stop fan should stop as well. You can do it by the Game Dash I think but I havent tested.

    Simtools is the best free software at the moment for DIY simmotion, and the people here are great. I mean all the community, but of course next version of this software could be even better!
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. insanegr

    insanegr !N$@n€

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    @gorzasty just a loud thought. you could do what you are describing above with tuning center small number for acceleration and a big number for braking so you can have movement when you accelerate and nothing while braking but i know that tuning center is for all the interfaces we connect to simtools so it will effect other interfaces too.
    another option that could work is to have one tuning center for each interface.
    not sure if above are right but i had this thing in mind for some time.
  18. gorzasty

    gorzasty Active Member

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    Yes, You are right @insanegr , but in my case I use two interfaces - one for seatmover and one for GSeat, so for me the woudn't work. This solution is only half proper even for one interface, because Tuning Center is not fully designed to change axis moving range, but for its dynamics rather IMO. Ofcourse You can use this as You wrote but I think its not as it was designed.
  19. prodigy

    prodigy Burning revs

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Reading this post about SCN startup limit / boundary problem
    http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/scn6-3-dof-problem-when-starting-up-game-engine.7904/

    I have remembered a long before I wanted to ask for a feature regarding SCN interface setup - and that would be a slider for SCN position or Center offset. We have Speed and Acceleration sliders now, a Position or Center offset slider would come in handy for sure. In some games I've found myself in position where my seat is not being centered, it was tilted down which I tend to correct with Surge effect itself, playing with Tuning center Min/Max values - but that is not the proper way to do it since I am altering the realism of the forces.

    In fact, this Centering feature doesn't need to be just for SCN type, maybe it could be implemented in Axis configuration so it can be set per game, regardless of interface used.
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Best to include @yobuddy, just to flag it for him while the next version of SimTools is still under development.