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Request (Feature) Mixing vibration data into normal data

Discussion in 'SimTools DIY Version' started by Thanos, Nov 14, 2018.

  1. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    Did try the Dirt Rally plugin and put the Extra 3 to 1%.
    Some nice movements on idle but on higher rpms the movements almost disapears.
    When driving the car the rpm movements is drowning in the other vibrations.
  2. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I'm looking at doing this a bit differently. My plan is to have a separate actuator and seat heave plate (low inertia) in my sim for the high frequency stuff and leave the larger freq/movements to the 6DOF actuators. When the changes are made to Simtools to support this - separate A/B axis tuning center settings (not far off from today's info) I will implement it.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    This is what I'm talking on the first post of this thread... a way to mix vibration signals with normal motion signals without the later being "drown" !!!
  4. Cyberbug

    Cyberbug New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    SCN6, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Is there no road surface feel in Simtools? (noob here)
    thinking of using it for iracing and assetto corsa with prs200 actuators or pt-actuators
  5. Thanos

    Thanos Building the Future one AC Servo at a time... or 6

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    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, Joyrider, Motion platform, 4DOF, 6DOF
    There is road surface feel... if you use fast servomotors... for such I recommend the AASD-15A servos that have 2ms response timing and can be used on PT-ACTUATOR actuators (not MDBOX...)

    See this video:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I have asked to add two extras for inputs of Front left and Front right chassis RideHeights data.
    With such feeds to my front two actuators, I bet would feel much more realistic. Currently the heave/roll/pitch data SimTool feeds for D-box style just not adequate (the vibration fundamental mode < 0.1Hz, lack of higher modes). You will not feel vibrations or micro bump or road surface details. By using chassis rideHeights data will overcome this. In fact, you don't need an actuator to be capable of vibrating at very high Freq. The max freq for vibrating the chassis is less then 15Hz.

    Here the results for front left and right chassis rightHeights spectrum analysis I did with rF2 GT car data on Silverston track:

    Front-Height-fourier-analysis-rF2-GT.JPG

    The heave data from vertical-g as SimTool used has much less detail and low freq, which feel is not coherent with racing car if use this alone for chassis vertical movement (OK for flight sim I think):

    raw-data.PNG

    vertical g data: strong fundamental mode ~ 0.1 Hz; and 1st mode at ~ 0.4Hz, but lack of high freqs.

    fourier-analysis-vertical-g.jpg

    That suggests the ride heights data contains more road surface textures, high freq vibrations and micro bumps, while the vertical g data contains main bumps with strong impact force. This is understandable since the vertical-g data is the 2nd derivative of CG rideHeight in respective to time, hence with far less spatial information.
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  7. Newgun

    Newgun New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    For an appropriate D-Box style simulation, wouldn't we want to add 4 extra inputs (front right, front left, rear right, rear left)? Or instead of adding 4 extra inputs, is it possible to have an advanced setting or Filter for the Heave axis to specify a specific chassis?
  8. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    We don't sit on top of the shocks thou, we sit on the chassis of the vehicle.
    So there would be less vibrations applied at the chassis, as its the end result of all of these forces affecting the chassis.
    Also for a 4 legged sim anyway, if you did send ride height independently to each actuator, they all would kick unevenly causing one (maybe 2 at times) actuator(s) to lift off the ground.

    Sure thou, one could build a plugin with these values if they wanted to.
    Anything can be used in a plugin really.
    Take care,
    yobuddy
  9. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  10. Newgun

    Newgun New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Outside of the ride height/chassis data, would it just be as effective to have the suspension data directed to each actuator/corner? This would provide great feedback for road bumps and curbs. I have a GS-5 that is mounted on a 4 corner actuator rig, and the GS-5 does a very good job in simulating road textures and bumps, so the the data is definitely there in the game. Simtools just needs to be able to translate that data to each corner. Or maybe it's there already and I'm not getting the feedback from my actuators due to it's frequency.
  11. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    I don't believe this is proper way though. Pedals/seat/steering wheel all are mounted on the chassis. Usually, chassis height is very stable, you don't feel whole car heave up down such "boat floating" effect (because of suspensions, shock and absorbers):

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7y6hT56cL0 and www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnGdA6qjr1c

    Unlike a boat which the water wave can heave the whole boat up down, when a car hits bump or pothole it hits front tires first then rear tires. Chassis is relatively stable due to suspension and absorber and shocks (www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vElCOug8Fw&t=115s), so the car chassis pitches and rolls mainly (because the car hits road bump or pothole with front tires first: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvkTpYH9AUI). The whole chassis may heave if hits very large bump or valley or hill, of which the size is comparable to the distance between front tires and rear tires, like rally car.
  12. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    Have read some about the Wwise framework for game developers and they have some about motion.
    They have motion data and then mix effects from audio data to the motion bus.
    The image at the bottom of the page explains it good.
    https://www.audiokinetic.com/library/edge/?source=Help&id=methods_for_generating_motion

    I dont know if this is how D-Box does it?

    Game Vibe can handle converting all sorts of effects to generic audio sounds with both freq and volume for buttkickers.
    If that sounds could be converted to motion instead and mixed with the regular motion data.
    Maybe could Game Vibe output generic audio or generic motion effects?
    I know that I have probably mentioned this before but I could be totally wrong or I have trouble explaining :)

    Newer MDBOXes have an audio input that creates motion vibrations from sounds but its like a black box (and only one channel). It would be much better if the control of the mixing could be done in Simtools/Game Vibe or such.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  13. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    I have been playing around with the Dirt Rally plugin and the RPM on Extra 3.
    On my rig (3DOF + 2) its on all four legs and on 5%, min/max 1500/-1500.

    Vibration is a square wave that is customized depending on RPM and acc/brake G-force.
    Low rpm low freq and short pulse.
    High rpm high freq and longer pulse.
    G-Force adds to the amplitude.

    Even if its a square wave the motion is smooth...to smooth I think and can not be compared to a butt kicker.
    I dont know if its the actuators not keeping up or if the motion mix makes it smooth?
    I really want to test the vibration really clean with no smoothing or filtering byt maybe its clean now? @yobuddy

    If anyone wants to try it its attached, the risk is on you :)?

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  14. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    I can add that setting extra 3 axis to 100% and boundary to 6 makes the vibrations not drowning in the other movements.
    • Informative Informative x 1