Making a simulator for a real driver

Hi,

Since 3 months or so i am making a racing simulator for a real racing driver.
He drove a Ferrari 430 GT2 and a GT3 racing car for a couple of years and now bought a Corvette C6R GT1 racing car.
He wants to practice his heel n toe technique for downshifting with a sequential shifter.
However he has big issues with the psychics of all the games we run today. He says its not realistic, like driving on ice, and braking and the overall grip is much better in real life too. And he knows what it must be in a real racing car
I tested every game with him, from Iracing to GTR2 to Rfactor, the F1 2010 games and so on...
I think the best deal is to go for RFactor and let a existing Corvette mod be changed (psychics wise) by someone who knows how to do that. Also RFactor has the option for extracting MOTEC data, something he also wants. It will be a training tool, not a game rig ;-)

Do you guys have any idea who might do such a thing, i mean make a RFactor corvette C6R grip and brake like for instance a f1 car like it apparently does in real life.... :? Or have other ideas about this matter?
I will try to contact one of the builders of the official Corvette in Rfactor...

Part list:

- Motion with actuator covers from simxperience and 100mm scn5
- Aluminium profiles for measurements, will be replaced for a solid steel construction
- Real Corvette C6R egg holder racing seat and proper dimensions of the driving position
- Frex complete paddle box
- Frex Simwheel
- Frex Shifter
- 3xLG 50inch full HD plasma screens
- Fast PC - I7 - 4GB Ram- 3 gb/sec mobo - SSD 120gb - black edition WD 1TB HD - Ati eyefinity 5870 card - etc.

Thanks in advance

Regards,

Rob

Some mods have accurate physics derived from actual vehicle data and some don't. If I'm not mistaken, iRacing uses actual data to create their vehicles. It is much more likely that something else is causing him to have this perception than the physics model being entirely incorrect. Thats not to say that any model is perfect, but most are better than the perception your driver has of them.

He are a few things to consider.

1.) An improper wheel lock ratio to the actual vehicles ratio. This will cause real drivers to think that they are driving on ice because they don't realize the amount of input that they are giving and it is differeing from what they are accustomed to. Wheel size can also cause this perception. You should dial this in before doing anything else.

2.) Default car setups are rarely accurate. Most mods ship with a car setup that is less than optimal.

3.) Make sure he puts a few laps in before making up his mind. IMHO, most games exaggerate how loose the car is on the first lap or two in their attempt to represent the difference between warm and cold tires.

4.) No motion is better than incorrect motion. I see that you are using 100mm actuators. If you are using them with the motion profiles that are designed for 150mm systems, you are likely to get innacurate cues. You can try starting off with no motion and then adding the motion one effect at a time to see if any of them are causing a negative motion cue.

I would highly suggest going over these first. If you got another modder to create different physics for you, what would you ask him for? Asuuming that the current mods have accurate models, then you would be asking the modder to create a mod for you that actually performed beyond that class of vehicles capability.

Thanks for your opinion Bernard!

He did test most games without the motion, motion is not that important for him.
Wheel lock ratio is something we talked about a lot, when he was in my sim i adjusted it to his needs, they use less lock then we think btw. around 300 degrees.
About the tires, he says that in a real car (he uses tirewarmers) the difference is not so big as for instance in the simbin games. (i know that after 3 or 4 laps you will have more grip, played it allot)

Anyway i will consider IRacing again, however, it does not have most of the circuits that he drives on in the dutch supercar challenge season...

Other question for people who had real drivers in there sims, what did they say? or better still, people who drive in real racing cars who have simulators? (from GT3 and up, no low classes)

Regards,

Rob

How did you calculate the steering ratio? To be accurate, he must know the ratio of his cars steering, then in theory:

(2 x [Max] Steering Lock) x Steer Ratio = Rotation

Rotation / (2 x Steer Ratio) = Steering Lock

Ratio = Rotation / (2 x Steering Lock)

The thing that takes most real drivers a moment to get accustomed to is the fact that we can't simulate fear People tend not to notice how fast they are charging into a corner when the fear factor isn't present, especially if the gear ratio hasn't been set to that of their real vehicle.

I think iRacing should start chargng people $50 every time they go off track and $100 if they hit a wall. They could show a realtime status of their bank account onscreen as it goes negative. Maybe that would put the much needed fear into simulation. I would consider it a more accurate simulation since it costs money to hit a wall.

Hi,

In my opinion nothing compares to iRacing for now. Maybe rFactor2 will in a near futur ... and I would not even consider the other options for his needs ... rFactor physics and transmission model is nothing compared to iRacing ones ...

Yes iRacing export the data of real cars but lack a little bit on the tyre model. They will implement a brand new tyre model this year but it won't be in the next built unfortunately.

With the current tyre model I agree that it can feel very 'icy' especially when on the grass ... It is still the best simulator to date for me ... As for the braking, are you using a loadcell pedal? it's totally necessary and also to readjust the brake pressure and make sure it's set to 0 in iRacing options.

I agree with Bernard about the default car setups.... try iRacing shared setups, there are some really better ones. You can also try to add a little bit of deadzone, it might help to not loose the grip. Some cars like the Lotus79 just cannot be driven without a little bit of deadzone ...

Also he will not be able to feel the correct sense of speed without motion even if it's not important for him. Once you create a very good motion profile and a good FOV he won't return to a simple chair.

And is there a reason why you choosed 100mm vs 150mm actuators? The Corvette C6R is pure torque beast and you absolutely want the maximum actuators travel possibility to try to simulate it ...


Regards,


Bleco

hi rob,
in rfactor you must test with the screen setups in the play.if i not have the right position i dont can drive correct.for my best laptime i must have the picture from the other cars more as real.only than
i have a correct motion feeling.with 100 i mean i drive a truck on 70 i mean i drive a limosine on
57 is correct for me (i drive megane) and on 35 i mean i drive a cart.

Thanks for all the reply's.

I think we will reconsider IRacing. However IRacing is very expensive to just give it a go... I think i will renew my subscription this month for one month, i don't really like the game, ok the psychics are great, but there is not much to fiddle with, like the forced cockpitcam, and the irritating tyre noises...
The reason for having 100mm is because the whole motion is not that important for him, he thinks its not very realistic, however he did want the option to use it.

When will RFactor2 be released? I could not find any trusted info on this, also they said it would be released end 2010....
I will keep you guys posted how things go, i will not be in his worksshop for a week or so.

Regards,

Rob

You better sign up a new account for him and benefit of the current rebate for new users:
http://www.iracing.com/buy-1-get-2/

I agree with you about the tyre srub ... There should be an option to adjust it. This is usually used to compensate for the lack of G-Force ... no need for us!

Rework your profile! Make it smoother and remove excessif vertical effect and spikes. Adjust you actuator accel and start only with basic G-Force effects (lat,long,vert) + RPM. Like Bernard says all the time, no motion is better then incorrect motion!

There is no release date yet for rFactor2 and ISI never stated that it would be released in 2010. They say exactly that there was less then 48% chance it would be released before christmas 2010 ... It will be released when it will be released ....
http://www.simhq.com/_motorsports5/moto ... _154a.html




Bleco