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"Joyrider" doubts

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by andre.cestari, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. andre.cestari

    andre.cestari New Member

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    Guys,

    I'm new around here, so first of all, CONGRATULATIONS!
    I was doing some research about Motion Simulators on Internet till I get here.
    I'm stuned with the people organization/determination to research and develop means to improve Motion Simulator!
    The first post that I red was amazing! A group of people decided to buy an actuator (SCN5), and in a few days you have the whole solution! (hardware and system)
    I like the joyrider style, but I saw that most of you have the playseat style.
    Some joyrider projects started, but I saw just Thanos project working out.
    Another thing I red, is that none knows a good electric actuator good enought (speed and strenght) to run a joyrider.
    I know that DIY and $$$ is a general concearn (including my self!) and I think the chassis is not the problem, cause the idea is very clear. 2 axis based on a double balance system build upon human body CG. Very simple concept, very hard to build at home a system that handle a human body and equipment weight, so aluminum or iron and welding is necessary to build a good system, and I agree that is not all of us that have this kind of equipment.
    So the problem with the actuator is not a humanbody weight, cause a system based on CG make a body very easy to manouver, the problem is the inercia! The stop and go is not an easy job in this case!
    So I started to research about an electric actuator that fits Joyrider needs.
    I don't know a sh... about actuator! I'm just an entusiast! So, I would like your help to evaluate an actuator (i don't have the $$$ detail yet!) that I found on Internet, and I think it's build there in the neighborhood (Deutschland)...

    Product site: http://www.wittenstein-motion-control.de/170_605.htm

    Brochure (they have also in deutsch!): http://www.wittenstein-motion-control.d ... atalog.pdf

    As I told ya, I'm an ignorant in the matter, but I think it's heavy duty and fast enought... isn't it?
    Another doubt that I have, is if X-SIM supports joyrider sim style.

    Sorry for my bad english!

    Hope to hear from you son,

    André Cestari
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. Mambo

    Mambo New Member

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    I think it's heavy duty and fast enought... isn't it?
    Oh yeah and also very expensive.
  4. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    The SCN6 is capable of powering a properly designed JoyRider for alot less money. May I ask what you intend to simulate (racing or aircraft) and what you perceive the benefit of the JoyRider style design to be? It always fascinates me to see new members gravitate toward this concept initially, and I frequently wonder what motivates the decision.
  5. andre.cestari

    andre.cestari New Member

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    Ups!

    As I told you, I didn't know the price of this actuator!
    I just red that SCN5 was not enought to make a joyrider work properly...
    The cost x benefit of SCN6 is the best one? It makes joyrider works fine?
    Now I'm curious! How much it costs? (The SCN6 and the one I told you)
    Answering your question, I intend to simulate mainly racing.
    Hahahahaha... I understand this curiosity about new's people perception! Well, first of all cause it seems to be more real than playseat, that moves just the seat. Joyrider moves the whole perspective, the pedals, the wheel and mainly the world, after all, the monitor moves with it.
    I saw a video here in x-sim where the guy were flying. Everything was moving out! But the horizont line was always in the same place! The way it shoud be!
    Another thing is that I think (I never use it...) joyrider simulate G force better than playseat. It have a long range os movement, I think that gives me that perception.
    So! There's someone around here that aready use a SCN6 to build a joyrider?
    X-SIM support joyrider sims?

    Thanks!

    André Cestari
  6. bvillersjr

    bvillersjr Active Member

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    Interesting. It's too bad people don't get a chance to actually drive both theories before deciding. Everything that you mentioned sounds very logical and is a reasonable conclusion to draw at first glance. Thanks for sharing your thinking.
  7. andre.cestari

    andre.cestari New Member

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    I just saw these Sims over the internet...

    I agree with you that the correct way to choose one is to try bouth!
    If possible, I would like to receive more information about X-SIM and ACTUATORS SPECS.
    You told that SCN6 is a good cost x benefit. I saw the specs of this actuator and I have some doubts.
    I think it change depending on my project, so to get the picture, I intend to build one like simcraft.
    X-SIM have some specs and caracteristics that I need to respect? (like I/O = RS485. I need to chose an actuator with this I/O type?)
    Reading other posts, the minimun speed to have a good sim is 200mm/s?
    To run a joyrider Sim with full power, 40Kgf is enought? (for an exemple, I intend to build one like Simcraft).
    150mm of stroke is enought to have 40º roll and pitch?

    Thanks Folks!

    André Cestari
  8. andre.cestari

    andre.cestari New Member

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    Another thing...

    I was thinking. Many people tell that the electric motor system with pulleys (like Thanos) is MUCH cheaper than electric actuators.
    But I also heard that wiper motors are to slow. Can I use another one, without reduction gear and with just positive and negative wire?
    What should be the specs of this electric motor to get a VERY GOOD joyrider with pulley system? (fast and strong)
    OK! I think after have a notion of wich electric motor or actuator to use and have some prices in hand, I'll be ready to decide the system to use!

    THANKS!

    André Cestari
  9. adgun

    adgun Active Member

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    HI
    No you can't
    It will only work using seppermotors
    But it's easy to make youre own motors:you only need a nema 23 pmdc servo and a gearbox from
    www.slidesandballscrews.com
    This way you have complete freedome with force and speed.
    regards Ad
  10. andre.cestari

    andre.cestari New Member

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    Sorry for my ignorance...

    Abusing your knowloge, the diference between a seppermotors (it's the same that servomotor, isn't it?) and a normal one is that the seppermotors we can control the RPM and a normal motor we can not!?

    NEMA is the brand, PMDC the type and 23 the model? I'm asking it cause maybe I can found these kind of motors around here.

    Any idea to choose the correct reduction x correct seppermotor? I think it got some variables right? Seppermotor speed, power, torque and voltage...

    Do you know the better combination for power x speed to use for this purpose? (Joyrider using pulley system using Thanos hardware)

    Thanks ad!

    André Cestari
  11. adgun

    adgun Active Member

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    Hi
    Stepper motors and pmdc motors are complete different.
    Steppermotors are bruchless and pmdc use bruchess
    You can only use pmdc with Thanos stuff.
    Nema23 and 32 means flance sice from motor,they fit to the gearbox
    Only 4 screws needed to combine motor and gearbox (nema 23 motor and nema 23 gearbox)
    Steppermotors are @ there strongest when they are stalling ,and accelarate faster
    But are slow about there rpm,They can make 6000rpm ore more but you must give them lots of time to come there
    If they accelarate fast mass intyria comes in and they making less than 1000 rpm
    Pmdc motors have a continuos working area, and make there given rpm
    If they need more force they ask more amps.
    So if you need 20nm stall torque and 60rpm
    you need a pmdc servo 0,2nm cont.working area and 6000rpm.
    fit it on a gearbox with i /100 and you have wat you want.
    But you need to calculate in ,the max force from gearbox
    with limiting the amps from motor
    regards Ad