iRacing F1 Williams-Toyota FW31 150mm profile

Sim: iRacing
Car: F1 Williams-Toyota FW31
Actuator type: Scn5 150mm

X-Sim version: 2.0.8.9b
25% limiter: NO / 75 % limiter
Speed and accel set in Synaptrix

V1.9: (28-09-2011)
Total new profile built from scratch
Smooth and progressive acceleration and overall feel
Improved curbs feeling
Added effect 31

iRacing Bleco F1 Williams-Toyota FW31 150mm v1.9.rn2





Enjoy!


Bleco

Hi Bleco,

Thank you for contributing to the community. I have tested your profile and there are a few things that are not correct.

1) Your lateral and roll max/min values must be the same in each direction as well as also having the same axis invert/non invert value.
2) Your pitch should have a positive and a negative value that are also the same. Your profile only has a positive value for pitch.
3)You should ensure that pitch and roll are scaled equally as well as lateral and longitude values eg. (if pitch is 20% roll should be 20% provided that you have captured accurate max/min values for the car.
4) Your longitudinal value for acceleration has a split axis but you have a value set of max 1 and min 1. You should have these values very high (eg. Max = 2000000000000, min = 1000000000000) so that the value is too high to prodce any measureable g force or you should remove the split value and invert the value on both the left and right axis.

I noticed in your video that your are using pretty much all of the travel of your SCN5's during acceleration which does not leave you any headroom if you are in a violent crash and with your 25% limiter disabled, you run the risk of damaging your actuator. I personally think the profiles feel better without the 25% limiter but I now enable it in all the profiles I share and scale the effects accordingly so that it will be safe for all users to try.

Here is a profile that I have been working on that you can use as an example. I chose not to separate the acceleration and braking values in this profile but I have experimented with doing that as well and there are cases where I have felt that it was necessary.

ledfoot iRacing Williams F1 stage ii 2.5.rn2

The acceleration/braking and lateral intensity in my profiles are not as strong as yours becuase I prefer a softer feel but you can increase the intensity until you get your desired result.

The most important thing that you should aim for when building your profiles is that you need to ensure that you have accurate max/min values. In most cases the min value should = 1 but the max value should represent the maximum amount of g - force that you were able to capture for that vehicle. In the case of pitch and roll, you will need to find a place on a track where you can record the value on the steepest incline. Vertical force values should be recorded while driving off track on a very bumby area so that you get the highest possible values as well.

You're certainly headed in the right direction so please continue building profiles and contributing to the community.

.....Mike

Hi Mike,

Thank you very much for your input and time, it's very appreciated. I think that we need to share these infos in order to build a good profile database.

Overall profile values were reworked and I set the percent scaler to 85% instead of 90% and reduced the longitural accel intensity a little. This corrects the issue with first and second gears where acceleration was using too much actuator travel. We can feel the effect trought all first and second gears now.

I personnaly think that 25% limiter is way too much and even if it could help increasing actuators lifetime, for me it's like reving this F1 car to 13500rpm instead of 18000rpm just because I don't want to hurt it's engine ;-)... I think that a minimum of 10% is good enouph to be safe. The actuators lifetime is supposed to be around 10000km using all it's travel.

Like you said, intensity values really depends in each personnal tastes but I do think that using effect 22 is essential to simulate a good speed sensation increased with gears. As per matching the intensity for lat/long pitch/roll, I agree with you it feels better.

By the way, I think there is a bug with the roll effect in your profile. I am only getting this issue with your profil where effect 30 is not inverted on both axis. If you invert only the right axis like in your profile, the right actuator position will drop a few millimeters down at race start and it's noticable ... The issue disapears when both axis are inverted ...


We have different preferences about effects 25-26-27 intensity but please tell me what you think of the overall profil creation logic.

V1.1 of my profile is now shared in initial post and I think it rocks solid!


Regards,


Bleco

I just added the same V1.1 but without the comports and program settings ...


Bleco

Hi Bleco,

Roll is a lateral movement and needs to have an axis inverted just like the lateral effect 25. I'm not sure about the issue you are seeing. Is this happening while the car is standing still and you're reving the engine or is it while driving?

You can test if you pitch and roll are working properly by setting a high intensity value and finding a steep hill to park the car on in each direction. If both roll axis are the same, the actuators will fight each other and you will not get the proper roll motion.

Also, the amount of limit you put into the profile will depend on the weight of the driver as well. I can guarantee that with only 10% you will run into a situation where you bottom out the actuator if the driver is fairly heavy and he gets into a situation where there are aggressive lateral motions resulting in a spin or a crash

Because of the varying simulator designs and actuator angles, a profile that feels rock solid on your sim rig may feel totally messed up on another rig


....Mike

I tested the new profile and it feels good except for the roll. You can test this by going to a track like Daytona and put the car on the oval. You should feel the seat tilt oposite to the bank but in the case with your profile, the car tilts forward because both axis for the roll are the same.

I was also able to bottom out the actuator quite easitly in my setup using this profile because the seat moves to far back for this design (It even lifts my feet of the pedals....lol ). If this is not an issue for you with your design then continue with it the way it is.

Great job.


....Mike

Hey Mike!

Thx for your comment!

I like the seat to tilt I little bit more, it adds speed immersion when using a proper FOV. I did not max out the actuators with my profile v1.1 ... but I may have an incorrect definition of 'bottom out'. For me it means that there is no more actuator movement on one axis or more at it's current position.

Just by curiosity, how much do you weight? I am 180 and I feel like the seat is going back just enouph and progressively. If your feet are lifted, it will not feel good... it could also depend on the pedals distance from your seat, I like them to be near ...

I totally agree with you about profile feeling from a simulator build to another and that was part also of my reply to bernard's topic about profile sharing ... It think it must be a popular reason why x-sim members are not sharing their profiles ... at least if we can have them done correctly with proper values it will be a good thing. There are way not enouph variety of profiles online and it's not helping new users unfortunatelly.

The issue I am having when inverting only 1 roll axis occurs at the very first moment where I get the motion on my actuators after loading a track. You can feel the actuator not being inverted going down a little bit. Using your profile it was about 5mm down... and it will keep it's wrong position all the time unless I invert both axis or remove the effect ... I don't drive oval tracks and cars and I builld this proifle at Spa.

I will try to correct the roll issue and test higher limiter values and repost..


:

Bleco

It's weird ...

I have just started my simulator and could not reproduce the problem ...

V1.2 is now available ...

- Removed percent scaler and adjusted profile with scn5 25% limiter
- Added effect 26 intensity
- Lowered effect 57-22 intensity
- Corrected effect 30 to be inverted like effect 25

It feels very good for me and should be enjoyable by other similar simulator build as well.

I will work on the Lotus 79 now ...




Bleco

My definition of bottom out is when the actuator can no longer move the weight at a given angle and it basically lets go hits the retaining pin. In some cases this has caused the pin to break and is not an easy thing to fix at that point.

I'm 210lbs so I have to be a little more concervative with my actuator movements but I also prefer a little less movement when I'm in a race so that I can concentrate on the race. I tune my profiles to give me the right motion cues but not excessive motion. I do have more intense profiles for when I'm in the mood for a wild ride or when I want to show the sim off to a friend for the first time though .

I'm glad you sorted out the issue with the roll as it is better to have no effect than one that is not configured properly.

I'll try out your newest version and let you know how it feels on my rig.

Thanks again for sharing.

.....Mike

The profile feels good other than the fact that it moves my seat a little too far back but I think that is just due to geometry differences in the design of the rig.

One thing I noticed is that your pitch maximum values are pretty low compared to mine. You should fine the steepest incline you can to get a pitch and roll value and then I usually add about 10 to 15% to that value since you will never be able to find a hill that is close to 180 degrees of an incline. It is better to get close to the maximum value so that you will have more granularity in the scaling of the g-forces.

Great job.

....Mike

It's like there is an echo in these forums

Too bad this stuff isn't in a document somewhere. It's a bit like a story passed down from generation to generation. A little bit of the story is lost each time it is told.

If you guys are interested in writting a document about profile creation, I'd be happy to review it and fill in any blanks.

Hi Bernard,

This topic is a direct response to yours:
vote-where-do-you-get-motion-profiles-t2949.html

I will try to contribute the more I can even if our DIY simulators designs are pretty much 'unique' and can result in different profile feeling.

The most important thing is that the effects values are correctly balanced... Thx to Mike, now I will be able to create and share good profiles quickly. I should release another one soon for the Lotus 79 ...

As for a documentation, yes it's definitely missing ... I wanted to create a little reminder guide for me so once it's done I could sent it to you ... I can't tell you when however ... If someone as more free time then go ahead!




Bleco

I have captured the values on Spa's first incline which is the first one right after the start and it's very steep and could be the reason why my values are so different then yours. I ran a couple of pass up and down in the right and opposite directions... I will try to make additionnal captures tonight and add a 10-15% like you mentionned.


Thx!


Bleco

Glad to hear the you feel like you'll be able to contribute now.

I've been working for some time on the approach to designing a motion profile rapidly for the wizard in the Commander software. Mike and I discussed the results of that recently. The steps he is taking you through are almost in line with the steps that the wizard will help you to take even more quickly.

Also, I have devised a method to allow you to rapidly compensate for the differences in actuator angles, general dimensions and actuator stroke. My hope is that this will give us all an improved ability to exchange profiles EFFECTIVELY, which has not been achieved to date when crossing the boundary between DIY projects and pre-built offerings.

It's nice to have you on board and validating that the initial approach is effective. It would be great to get you involved in the remaining portions as well since you have differing geometry.

In light of recent events, I won't have much time for documentation, but am happy to review and fill in any missing pieces if you do have time to write something up. It would be great to see about 4 or 5 more people as enthusuastic as you about making quality motion profiles.

:

Thats actually not a very steep incline at all. I usually find a very steep hill off track like at the bottom of the last turn at Lime Rock Park or even on the oval at Daytona. I take the Pitch reading with the car pointing up and the roll reading with the car sideways and then add about 10 to 15% to that value or even more depending on how steep the hill is.


....Mike

... On Spa track it's the most steep incline ... My profile was built on Spa track only. But it's logic to use all maximum possible values using multiple tracks to be able to use the same profile on multiple tracks and still have good pitch and roll effects ... Limerock and Laguna Seca should give good results.

Noted for myself ...;-)

Thx!

Bleco

I would be happy to help you with the tests of the remaining portions of your project. For now, profiles sharing and helping you with the testing would be my only possible contribution. Little baby at home is taking a lot of attention and time ... But I have some free time at night

Will wait for a PM then ...


:


Bleco

I used to capture some of these values on track as well until Bernard set me straight

What you should be looking for is the real world maximum pitch and roll value for that particular vehicle and then scale the value accordingly. You will never be able to get that value while driving on track because there are no inclines steep enough. If you could lift the car off the track in mid air and point it's nose straight up in the air, that would represent the maximum pitch value that could be achieved and if you turned the car on it's side in mid air, that would represent the maximum roll value that could be achieved. Since there is nowhere on track that is that steep, we need to look for the steepest incline we can place the car on and then record that value. The reason for then increaseing the value by 10 to 15% or more is to compensate for the fact that the hill is not a 180 degree incline. This will then allow you to scale the maximum amount of pitch and roll the car is capable of regardless of what track you are driving on. With the maximum properly scaled, you will get much smother g-forces.

For gaining maximum longitudinal values, you will want to find a track that has a very long straigt like Watkins Glen so that you can accelerate to maximum speed and then brake very hard in a straight line.

Recording maximum values for lateral motion is not as easy but can be achieved by finding a track that you can drive very well and finding a corner that you can hit the apex at it's maximum speed. Depending on how well you hit the corner, you can then also increase the recorded value by about 10 to 15% to compensate for not being able to gain the maximum possible g-forces in that corner.

Vertical maximum values should be recorded at a very bumpy area off track as long as the car does not fall into a pot hole .

Bernard and I have had numerous conversations about the easiest way to capture these values and the wizard that he is working on will most definately make this process easier for everyone. :


....Mike

Thx again for sharing all this info, it's very usefull



Bleco

I have reworked my profile's effects values and intensity using your last advices ...



V1.3 Added


Bleco