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Tutorial "HPMC" High Power Motor controller H-bridge using N-MOSFETs

Discussion in 'Motor actuators and drivers' started by speedy, Dec 21, 2013.

  1. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    Excellent remark @rafael_design ...

    Yes the left green picture shouldn't be mirrored as a board preview ...
    I'll make the necessary adjustments ...
    Big Thanks buddy ...:thumbs
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  2. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    It is more easier now I guess ...:)

    I've updated the first post files and pictures for now as much as I can to make it clear ... also updated the bottom layer to be easier to solder the IC base ...
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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  3. rafael_design

    rafael_design Member

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    @abdo_tahan If you have some time, take a good look in this article and PLEASE share your thoughts, ok!
    http://robots.freehostia.com/Motors/Starters/Starters.html
    Thank you my friend!
  4. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    @rafael_design Sorry my friend ... I hate to give good people bad news... But IMHO those are FAKE information that are presented :eek: there ...

    Why ?

    First ... This link to there page talking about Reversing DC motor direction saying ...
    5. Reversing
    To reverse a DC motor, the supply voltage to the armature must be reversed, or the magnetic field must be reversed. In a series motor, the magnetic field is supplied from the supply voltage, so when that is reversed, so is the field, therefore the motor would continue in the same direction. We must switch either the field winding’s supply, or the armature winding’s supply, but not both.​

    How is that ? AC motors only who will continue in the same direction even if polarity is reversed , But NOT the DC motor ... all you have to do for DC motor is reverse the +/- connection then it is on the other rotation direction .

    Why not reversing the field winding's supply ? ... avoiding the sparks in the armature brushes ...

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Second ...As I see there :
    while the normal current path is ---> batteries + controller + [ motor field coil + motor armature coil ] .... all in a series connection together
    So why is this connection ---> batteries + motor field coil + controller + motor armature coil ... in series too ?
    There answer is : To reverse the DC motor rotation direction ... Maybe, So I took an hour or so thinking of something like that ... and found that I need a detailed blueprints of a DC motor to find out the angles of fields between stator and rotor ... whether they will push or grape the rotor ...

    What they actually did is removeing the Stator windings loads [field coil ] out of the equation of the PWM shopped current ... Unfortunately ... they connected them back again in series with the controller Exposed to the 4KV of the back EMF :grin ... and they got there reversed rotation direction ... in a twisted way .
    WireToSpeedController.gif

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thired ...

    1. They talked about the amount of current and it's effects on the MOSFETs but didn't say that much ... I didn't also understand the relation of how the MOSFETs heat will be consumed in the rotor windings :think?
    2. what do you think of these rotor wires can really pass of your battery's current in 1 second ? Rotor.jpg
    3. and how you're going to chop that current and bring it back without causing heat in MOSFETs ?
    4. They talked about the torque but didn't state the minimum PWM duty cycle % that would overcome the load free stall torque of such motor and it's effects on the dead zone for closed loop motion simulation ... and recommending starter motor for Robots !!!:oops:
    FYI ... See that how much the angle of the FB potentiometer in both ways (dead zone) till the offload motor starts rotating (humm without rotation) ...

    Although that, I'm still impressed for your trial of connecting such a beast and admires your courage ... :thumbs
    I've watched your video again and noticed that your motor spins on both directions with only two wires ... Any suggestions for how is that from your point of view ?

    Thanks @rafael_design
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  5. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    I feel using a starter is crazy idea, power suckers and to me unless geared way down will be too hard for a closed loop pid to control, but looks like ya got it working , sort of.
    You want cheap power not fussed about noise, Use a 12v boat winch, can be found all over the world for under a $100 bucks and contains a 400:1 gear box, strong as with speed to spare, plus only 15-20amps needed for stall current.
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  6. rafael_design

    rafael_design Member

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    Thanks for replying! I don't want to go off topic, but I think when people get this n-channel h-bridge working will need a few motors to try it :D
    Humm, probably your eyes are tricking you! This is single direction speed controller and have only forward rotation.
    But in fact I reversed motor polarization conections to test the motor in reverse rotation and it works flawless. This means that this hack in the motor connections have to do with reversing spikes, EMF or other stuff I dont understand...
  7. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    It's on my wish list to connect all the 3 DOF motors on the same controller ... :D

    edit:
    Thanks any way for this kindly comment ... I've got it's hidden message ... But as I said before ... I wish I had a bigger motor and good battery to push this H-Bridge to it's unknown maximum ...
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  8. john

    john New Member

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    @RaceRay, is there sufficient interest yet for PCB order ? What might the price be for ten off boards ?
  9. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys ... Here is a teasing view of a New Enhanced DIY version of this controller ... with some DIY obstacles removed :
    • a sort of new way for easy access and joining the two boards with in between headers thus using the space between boards for Easy terminal connection, More ventilation, and Minimum assembling/maintenance effort .
    • more soldering spacing with some extra + modified MOSFETs protection components (total board dimension will be 8.5CM x 8.5 CM ).
    • wider top board tracks for easy Big DC Amps. flow,So not heating up the Top board itself .
    • more fun ... + a 10x10cm casing Box .

    Bottom board normal layout with silk screen finished .JPG Bottom board normal layout.JPG
    Top board normal layout with silk screen.JPG Top board normal layout.JPG

    Now ... working on the copper layers and photos ...
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    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  10. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    for making the first one of this new controller version ...

    started 2 hours later with blank board cutting to the required dimentions .
    2014-01-15 06.28.52.jpg

    sanding rough edges and cleaning finger prints with soup and steel wool .
    2014-01-15 06.40.46.jpg

    drying the board on paper towels so no water stains on copper ... printing the inverted copper layer files on thin magazine paper and cutting to size leaving aditional space to be handled .
    2014-01-15 06.52.43.jpg

    using an Iron on the max. heat degree and give the paper a good press down .
    2014-01-15 07.05.13.jpg

    soak the ironed board for 2 minutes into warm water first to soften the paper and make scratches on it's surface for good water penetration ... use a voltage regulator legs .
    2014-01-15 07.04.08.jpg

    apply a cold water to cool the boards down so the toner can hard stick to the copper and start pealing off paper gently ... use an old tooth brush or a gentle press with your finger to rub all remaining paper residues .
    2014-01-15 07.11.38.jpg 2014-01-15 07.27.46.jpg

    dry the boards with paper towel and use a permanent marker to make any adjustments if needed .
    2014-01-15 07.50.09.jpg


    use a double plate like this to make like a "steam-bath" to the Ferrous chloride etching solution for fast and better results ... wait for 15 minutes and check the board for additional 5 minutes .
    2014-01-15 08.40.17.jpg


    once finished rinse with cold water and use the steel wool again to remove the toner layer .
    2014-01-15 08.34.14.jpg 2014-01-15 08.57.05.jpg


    print the silkscreen files on sticker paper if you want to use this cheap method and cut to size ... use a strong back light to align the paper to the board .
    2014-01-15 09.05.40.jpg


    use a pencil to outline and a soft press cutter to cutout and expose the needed solder pads and copper tracks ... be careful not to cut any copper tracks by the cutter's blade .
    2014-01-15 11.10.43.jpg 2014-01-15 10.20.32.jpg

    now going to by out the needed parts and will be back soon ...
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    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  11. RaceRay

    RaceRay Administrator Staff Member SimAxe Beta Tester

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    I am still working this out and will post here if there are any news.
  12. Uporotiy-liss

    Uporotiy-liss New Member

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    Привет! У меня вопрос.Можно использовать в вашей схеме FP50N06 ?

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  13. RaceRay

    RaceRay Administrator Staff Member SimAxe Beta Tester

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    @prilad Whats he talking about?:)
  14. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    "Hi! I have a question. Can be used in your circuit FP50N06?" (Google)

    Some type of MOSFET; see attached datasheet.
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  15. prilad

    prilad Well-Known Member SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer

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    Ha-ha!!! @value1 with Google is faster me :cheers
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  16. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    the IRF3205 MOSFET is much powerful ...

    IRF3205.jpg

    $(KGrHqVHJCsE7z-UF,W7BP!+Q-ujyw~~60_35.JPG
    But If you don't have IRF3205 around you ... yes you may use the RFP50N06 as replacement ... as the bootstrap capacitor value now will cover it's performance easily ..
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2014
  17. Uporotiy-liss

    Uporotiy-liss New Member

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    Do you have a schematic diagram of H-bridge?
  18. postsol

    postsol New Member

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    what a beauty you have made

    I have looked and looked all over for h-bridge which I hope will keep my abuse
    and when I've looked about many places I found over the mosfet which look like that it can holde to little more power abuse

    it is a irl1404zpbf
    and here is data sheet

    so my question is, can I use this mosfet instead of IRF3205

    sincerely,
    postsol

    Attached Files:

  19. speedy

    speedy Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys ... that seems like every one want's to use his own MOSFET ... or maybe an educational proposes .:thumbs

    For guys who just want to use there own MOSFET you have to change the Bootstrap capacitors by this equation .


    bootstrap capacitor caculation.jpg



    For guys who want to study more of a schematic diagram ... here is an excellent file IR2110 VIP an-978.pdf application note with all information needed for such H-bridge .Clear and very useful .
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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  20. postsol

    postsol New Member

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    i will use your design for i am not good with eletronics in that area you are the master :)

    and thx for a quick answer
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