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How realisitc is it??

Discussion in 'New users start here - FAQ' started by steamtrac, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. steamtrac

    steamtrac New Member Gold Contributor

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    Now imagine that a 125GP is even faster then the 250 RGV.
    Creates frustration sometimes for big bike drivers :)
  2. steamtrac

    steamtrac New Member Gold Contributor

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    OK, so maybe time to recap here.
    A used Fanatec wheel and paddles will be here soon. I think this will be a valuable step up, compared to my current sidewinder wheel.
    And now I would like to think about a long term solution. My impression is, that a G-seat combined with a 1DOF traction loss system may be the best reproduction of the feeling I am expecting. Does this make sense?
    Somehow I feel that the leaning and shaking of a standard 2DOF seat may not help me to “feel” the car better. I don’t think that it will reproduce the situation of loosing grip on the rear or front wheels to me, where as a Gseat maybe will. How does this idea sound?
  3. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    In the end You wont know until you try, And There's a good reason a Lot of high end commercial rigs use seat movers as a base. Not only does it convey the proper info to the driver but overall requires far less power and wattage to get the job done. In the end offering up a Very efficient effective setup.

    Yes the Fanatec will be Leaps and bounds better than your old MS sidewinder, Which Fanatec setup did you get ?
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    I think members like @Avenga76 use a Gseat and motion to compliment each others, so perhaps investigate a little more and put up your actual design ideas for members to comment on.
  5. steamtrac

    steamtrac New Member Gold Contributor

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    Guys,
    A used GS4 (G seat) is on its way to me. So far so good, the first step is made to get me into serious sim racing. Just in time before the winter approaches.
    Now which recommendation would you make to operate it, concerning software? Which program should I use, any hints for the parameter, how should I adjust them?
    Thank you a lot.
  6. steamtrac

    steamtrac New Member Gold Contributor

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    Guys,
    I have done now a couple of laps in my GS4 seat. And I have to say, it is a lot of fun. There is an auto tune function in the SimXperience software, this works really great, and I have to admit that the GS4 really transmits a feeling of Gforce to me.
    I do road tracks only, mainly Accetto Corsa. But I have noticed a slight delay, between the actual picture on the screen or the reaction of the car, and the movement of the GS4. To give an example, you go around a corner, and you see on the screen that the rear is braking loose, but the reaction of the GS4 comes a little bit later, like half a second, or maybe even less. But I feel a delay. I am already counter steering, before I feel the pressure from the GS4.
    I sound now a little drastic maybe, the delay is small, but there is one.
    Can you guys confirm this feeling of delay also on faster, bigger, more powerful rigs?
    In the end my question is, does a motion seat make me faster? I think my answer is no. But it is more fun. Do you agree?
    I am not super fast, I do 1:26 in Laguna Seca in a GT3 car. I can do the same lap times with or without the GS4. I adds fun – yes. But it is not mandatory for quick lap times.
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I can't comment on a GS4 seat but in this video I tried to capture just how much of even the fine vibration a motion rig can convey, by mounting the camera to the rig. The motion was actually turned down a fair bit as it gets uncomfortable pretty fast on a bumping track like Nords. @Nick Moxley has used a wiggle spring on a hat to also give a sense of what a motion rig feels like.

    The video projection on the wall is not actually moving, that is the camera on my rig that moves, and if you watch my head movements you can see they are very similar to what a real shoulder video of an open wheeler looks like. There is no real appreciable delay between the movement of the car and the movement of the seat. What you don't have is sustained Gs, at best it will be short bursts just over 2Gs.

  8. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Hi @noorbeast ,don't forget he is using SimXperience software to drive the GS4, not Simtools ;).
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Yes I am aware, I was trying to give some insight regarding the question posed: Can you guys confirm this feeling of delay also on faster, bigger, more powerful rigs?
  10. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Not that I have really noticed, but it can be effected by the filters used. Here's a old video of mine using Simtools V2 raw - no filters - not much lag to be seen.

    • Like Like x 1
  11. steamtrac

    steamtrac New Member Gold Contributor

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    I really appreciate your comments on what you “feel” on your rigs.
    But I have to say that in my opinion a video can not show if there is a delay between the car status, and the rig reaction. We are talking here about maybe 200ms. My eye is not capable of comparing these slight deviations on a video. I think you have to feel it, or to measure it.
    Has this done anybody yet? A high resolution speed measurement on the motors (probably via the potentiometers on worm drive motors), which is compared with the GForce signal coming from the sim software?

    We are talking here about a mechanical system. It DOES have a delay, the question is now, how big???
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    While a mechanical system may have a very small delay so too does your sensory systems, in fact you can cue motion 130ms before visual motion in order to maximize motion simulator fidelity: http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.25807

    You can actually see and visually register a motion variation better than you can reliably detect it via your Proprioceptors and vestibular system, both of which have circumstances where they will not register motion, such as a steady rate, or being physiologically unable to detect pitch and roll motion of 0.5 ∘ / sec2, which is what washout filters exploit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_simulaton
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  13. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Yes latency and it is everywhere, from the game itself in generating the telemetry to the conversion through simtools and transfer/conversion of data over IP, serial links, controller and then finally the transfer of energy into mechanical movement. You may be surprised how much of the delay is not in the mechanical system, which is why I pointed out that SimXperience and Simtools likely have a very different latency. FI, there has even been a difference noted during beta testing for many members between Simtools V1.3 and Simtools V2). Not a issue for me on my sim, but I look forward to the outcomes of your investigation.
    • Agree Agree x 1