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FlyPT Mover

Discussion in 'FlyPt Mover' started by pmvcda, May 30, 2019.

  1. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    This and allowing rotations in axis that don't cross at the same location (well hope it's understandable what I mean).
    In previous versions I had the option to use translation in world or local coordinates. I removed it.
    Now I could add the option for each translation.
    Let's see what comes in 3.0
  2. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    I am afraid your assumption is wrong. Actually we use the “coordination tilt” because your brain can’t make a difference whether you are accelerating or being tilted. The vertical motion from tilt/bank state takes the LOCAL vector. That means that the translations are dependent on rotations and not WORLD coordinated. Even if it looks counter intuitive, I believe that’s the most correct way to get the forces “right”

    Best.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. robjos1

    robjos1 Member

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    Just a note to say I was experimenting with writing my own motion for a cool space sim(game) "reentry" which dosen't have any physics output yet. I noticed that new files exported from phyphox (comma, decimal) no longer load in Mover player. The .MoverRec format doesn't appear to be ascii readable, any pointers for writing a csv or getting phyphox files to load would be much appreciated
  4. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Phyphox files should load correctly, unless there's some change in PhyPhox I'm not aware.
    MoverRec is binary to use less space, it's more versatile compared to Phyphox, but it might change in the future
    If you want to use the MoverRec format, here's an explanation of it's format:

    Code:
    MoverRec format:
    8 bytes for a Int64 specifying the number of frames
    1 byte for the number of sources recorded (usually 1, 2 in some fight simulators)
    1 byte for the number of values in each frame (n)
    n bytes with the index of the values recorded (see list of values bellow)
    4 bytes with a float specifyint the frame rate (time between each frame in ms)
    1 byte with 0 for low resolution timer and 1 for high precision
    2 byte Int16 with the indes where the frames start on this file
    s bytes with any string we want (description, autor...)
    f bytes with the frames info, see bellow
    
    Each frame is stored this way (if we have two sources):
    4 bytes with a float storing the frame time (frame zero as time zero)
    4 bytes with float for value 1 of source 1
    4 bytes with float for value 1 of source 2
    4 bytes with float for value 2 of source 1
    4 bytes with float for value 2 of source 2
    4 bytes with float for value 3 of source 1
    4 bytes with float for value 3 of source 2
    .
    .
    .
    
    So f size is going to be:
    4(float) * number of values recorded * number of frames recorded + 4(float to store frame time)
    
    Index of values:
    01 Lateral position
    02 Lateral speed
    03 Lateral acceleration
    04 Lateral acc. with gravity
    05 Lateral gravity
    06 Longitudinal position
    07 Longitudinal speed
    08 Longitudinal acceleration
    09 Longitudinal acc. with gravity
    10 Longitudinal gravity
    11 Vertical position
    12 Vertical speed
    13 Vertical acceleration
    14 Vertical acc. with gravity
    15 Vertical gravity
    16 Yaw position
    17 Yaw speed
    18 Yaw acceleration
    19 Roll position
    20 Roll speed
    21 Roll acceleration
    22 Pitch position
    23 Pitch speed
    24 Pitch acceleration
    25 Front left suspension position
    26 Front left suspension speed
    27 Front left suspension acceleration
    28 Front right suspension position
    29 Front right suspension speed
    30 Front right suspension acceleration
    31 Rear left suspension position
    32 Rear left suspension speed
    33 Rear left suspension acceleration
    34 Rear right suspension position
    35 Rear right suspension speed
    36 Rear right suspension acceleration
    37 Clutch
    38  Brake
    39 Throttle
    40 Steering
    41 Gear
    42 Engine torque
    43 RPM
    44 Speed
    45 Stall
    46 Flaps
    47 Landing gear
    48 Speed brakes
    49 Canopy
    50 Wind
    51 SimTools Axis1a
    52 SimTools Axis2a
    53 SimTools Axis3a
    54 SimTools Axis4a
    55 SimTools Axis5a
    56 SimTools Axis6a
    57 SimTools Axis1b
    58 SimTools Axis2b
    59 SimTools Axis3b
    60 SimTools Axis4b
    61 SimTools Axis5b
    62 SimTools Axis6b
    63 Front left surface
    64 Front right surface
    65 Rear left surface
    66 Rear right surface
    • Like Like x 1
  5. cubexxx

    cubexxx Member

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    You're right, for tilt coordination the order is correct as it is now, so it was a bad example. And I generally agree that the forces should be applied after the rotation. But, as I said, there are other scenarios where changing the order would be useful, e.g. I'd like to use the "vertical position" value for my up/down movement (I'm intentionally not saying "heave" here because "vertical position" will be in world coordinates, not local). Also I'd generally like to have the option in order to be able to experiment, even if it would be theoretically right or not, just to see what you get.
  6. Trigen

    Trigen Active Member

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  7. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    I will look at your post, but for 4.0, we are going to have way more telemetry info, including tire slip and other parameters.
  8. PeterW

    PeterW alias Wickie

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    Hi all!
    Today I bought x plane and its running so far in VR and with the mover interface :), but I didnt find any mover setting file for xplane. My assetto corsa setting feels strange with planes :eek:. So anybody out there who would share a xplane 6DOF setting with me?
    Thanks a lot!!
  9. deadlymanager

    deadlymanager New Member

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    Who want interface program for war thunder telemetry? I made rotataed hexapod and selfmaded software for it. Writed on Delphi.

    Attached Files:

  10. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    Every game I know outputs local forces. „body accelerations“ is what you need.

    if you want to experiment, you can try previous versions of mover where „world“ option was present.
  11. cubexxx

    cubexxx Member

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    But "vertical position" is not a force, it's a world position
  12. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    I’ve never heard about vertical position being used in motion cueing.

    Usually we deal with with 3 translational (linear) accelerations in m/s^2 and 3 rotational speeds in rad/s or deg/s.

    When the rotational speeds are not available, we take the angular positions in deg filtered with a high pass.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  13. cubexxx

    cubexxx Member

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    Why not? If you had unlimited range, that's what you'd use (world position) because that's the real position. If you have that right, you wouldn't need to think about forces, would be automatically right. So if you have a platform with 50cm vertical range you may well use directly absolute vertical position, on an almost flat racetrack the real position range wouldn't be bigger, for tracks with elevation change you could use highpass filtering
  14. Avee

    Avee Virtual Pilot

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    Will the next version also contain documentation for custom actuator definition?

    I have a dofreality 2dof platform. It does pitch and roll. The two actuators are mounted in a triangle, where one end is the center of rotation. It sits below the seat. This means pitch=average of the two actuators and roll=differential between actuators. Since the actuators are rotary motors with a crank, possibly a sine translation from rotation to movement needs to happen, but I am not sure yet whether that is done in firmware or not.

    I would be very happy to provide geometry and to research the protocol to help you make it into a standard preset. The dofreality 3dof is very similar, it uses an extra motor to pivot the whole 2dof platform to add sway.

    Right now, I am struggling with the actuator definition, not really sure how to add correct geometry to the custom actuators. I guess some mixing needs to happen somehwere to translate roll and pitch into this triangle geometry.
  15. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    Hi,
    get the measures in a photo and I can setup the rig to use in Mover.
    Tell me also what model are you using (M2, H2, P2?)
    You can use custom actuators, but only with linear actuators for now.
    To setup rotating ones, I have to make it in code right now.

    Just added some rig variants yesterday:
    upload_2020-7-5_18-33-19.png

    I'm still working on 3.0 and at the same time in the future 4.0 that will be way different.
    Still have some things I want to add and test in 3.0.
    But 4.0 is going to include all I have in current versions with more customisation.

    By the way, seems the last windows update (2004) is causing problems with serial in some hardware, so, please be aware of that if anyone notices the rig moving erratically or in low resolution.
  16. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    « If » well.. I am afraid you are always limiting your variable through scaling in order to fit your physical range. Data elevation would force you to adapt the scaling not only to different vehicles but also accordingly to every track, that would be pain in the neck.

    I really don’t understand what would be the benefit of using linear position over linear acceleration.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    @hexpod is right, I'm even considering removing linear positions in the 4.0 version.
    What I understood of your post is that you want to separate the "mix" in roll and pitch and apply the vertical only in the pure roll and pitch.
    But even that, I don't think it's a good idea, because the vertical motion/acceleration should be vertical relatively to the user or we are inducing a wrong cue when using the mix to get constant accelerations.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Avee

    Avee Virtual Pilot

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    I am using the H2. I think that in the P2, the only geometrical difference is the slightly longer crank arm.

    My measurements for the H2:
    Crank arm: 65mm
    Linkage: 123mm
    Actuator distance: 460mm
    Actuator centerline distance from pivot: 370mm
    The crank arm moves 38 degrees up and down, so total range is 76 degrees.

    H2.png
  19. Avee

    Avee Virtual Pilot

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    The platform uses an Arduino with SMC3 command set, hope that helps.

    I am looking forward to 4.0, stringing things up like in node should make this super powerful.
  20. deadlymanager

    deadlymanager New Member

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    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1