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Experimental DCS Plugin ready for testing

Discussion in 'Digital Combat Simulators (DCS)' started by Dirty, Jun 28, 2019.

  1. Dirty

    Dirty Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi @krazycanuck :)

    I'm not much of an expert on SimTools :) Not even using it :) But I am pretty sure we will find out what's wrong.

    Just to be sure, let me try to clear out every potential source of misunderstanding:
    1. Are you sure you mean c:\users\XCCX\Appdata\DCS\Saved Games ?? The only location where DCS is being modified should be c:\users\[YourName]\Saved Games\DCS\Scripts ...and inside that Scripts-folder should be a file called Export.lua. Is that right? The plugin should've put that file there, but in case it didn't you can manually copy the Export.lua from the plugin download into that location.
    2. After installing the plugin through the PluginUpdater, check in SimTools Tuning Center if you see this:
      Bildschirmfoto 2019-09-13 um 16.23.33.png
      You should see "OnGround", "IAS", and "AoA" under the three extra slots. If you see those, then that's a very good sign all went smooth :)
    3. To be sure, check if the exported data is actually the angular rates: Look in Tuning Center in the first column of the green area where it says "Roll". This value should stay very close to zero when you are flying straight and level. While you roll the aircraft it should indicate the angular rate in °/sec. Positive values while rolling to the right, negative values while rolling to the left. Is that the case? If the check shows that indeed the angular rates are being transmitted, then the job of the plugin is done.
    Let me know how it went.

    Cheers,... Dirty :)
  2. krazycanuck

    krazycanuck New Member Gold Contributor

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    I followed all your steps and can confirm the Onground, IAS and AoA is in the tuning center. My Roll is close to zero as you described, as well I copied Export.lua to the correct scripts folder.

    However still no motion... I am using Xplane 11 perfectly, so something is up - I am assuming on my setup end...

    I should mention I am using DCS through Steam....
  3. Dirty

    Dirty Active Member Gold Contributor

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    As far as I know, Steam shouldn't make a difference.

    If you see the correct values in Tuning Center, then the plugin did it's job. Why they don't actually cause any motion is something I can't say, because I know virtually nothing about SimTools.

    Maybe @yobuddy, @noorbeast ,@hexpod or @value1 can help...?
  4. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Thanks for the heads up @Dirty :thumbs

    The first thing I would check is that you have axis assignment settings for DCS.
    Then check that you have valid Min / Max settings for the game.
    Let us know what you find buddy.
    Take care,
    yobuddy
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  5. krazycanuck

    krazycanuck New Member Gold Contributor

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    Well the key word in your last sentence was "valid max/min values" - so I went digging and i found this:

    https://www.xsimulator.net/tuning-centre/

    As of right now I have the pitch axis working on Extra 3 in the plugin for the 4 actuators, working on roll, heave, sway, surge. I don't have traction loss so I can't use yaw... I am doing this on 4 of the homebuilt sfx-100 actuators. Hopefully by end of today I will have it all figured out.
  6. krazycanuck

    krazycanuck New Member Gold Contributor

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    I guess it seems to me that roll pitch heave sway and surge are not as I thought. With this plugin, I am getting smooth pitch control using Extra3, but Roll when I select it for Roll, it "jerks" and stays left or right on the motion platform until I press the opposite direction. Its not smooth like the Extra 3 for pitch control. Not sure how to use the IAS, is that considered Surge? Not sure how to setup my DOF Axis Assignments for this particular game. Xplane worked very differently compared to this plugin. Help appreciated! Please comment.
  7. Dirty

    Dirty Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Hey :)

    The three Extra slots (OnGround, IAS and AoA) are not actually supposed to be used for anything. I just included them to show that you can export really anything in these three slots. Be creative! Or ignore them :)

    Inside the Export.lua file you can set different gains for when the aircraft is on ground, but if you don't it will work just as well. Just leave the values at 1.00.
    Bildschirmfoto 2019-09-14 um 21.14.45.png

    To help you better understand what this plugin is doing (...and what motion cueing in general even is), please note that the plugin ONLY exports the data. In this case the vehicle angular rates and the vehicle accelerations. As raw data, they are not meant to be used to drive a motion platform directly. You will have to do some filtering first.

    Here's how to best use the data for motion cueing on a 6DOF rig.:
    1. Under "Roll" "Pitch" and "Yaw" you find the angular rates of the vehicle. You should apply a highpass filter followed by a single lowpass filter. Then use this data to drive the roll, pitch and yaw channels of your rig.
    2. Next thing you do is you use the vehicle accelerations that you find in the Heave, Sway and Surge channels. Apply a highpass filter followed by a 2nd order lowpass filter. Then use this data to drive the heave, sway and surge channels of your rig.
    3. ON TOP of that, you use the vehicle accelerations of the Sway and Surge channel (again!). This time apply a 3rd order lowpass filter and add this signal to the sway and surge channel of your rig.
    That is in a nutshell the motion cueing algorithm know as "the classical".

    I am not 100% sure if all of those filters are available in SimTools directly, but FlyPT_Mover definitely has those filters. If you don't have a 6DOF rig then simply use only those channels that you have available on your hardware.

    Dirty :)
  8. Dirty

    Dirty Active Member Gold Contributor

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    ...oh, and I forgot to mention: As far as I know @hexpod 's HEXPOD software has those filters as well :thumbs
  9. krazycanuck

    krazycanuck New Member Gold Contributor

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    I have the pitch, roll, heave, and surge dialed in somewhat - the sway seems odd, when you roll left it seems to want to roll the entire cockpit to the opposite roll direction. I am not sure if this is normal, but I have since disabled Sway until I get some clarification on how that DOF should operate in flight. Again a big thanks to everyone for helping me out. I am getting close now. It appears my biggest problem was the max min values were way off the mark, and tuning ctr was nessecary for me to work at all. So after resetting and saving new values a couple of times it really made the motion sim work. Again if you could help with the sway that would be most appreciated!
  10. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Hi, any reason for the heave gravity offset?

    DCS plug-in.jpg
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  11. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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  12. gbdesai

    gbdesai New Member Gold Contributor

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    General question, should heave be reversed (checked meaning shows as orange in axis settings) or not reversed (unchecked in axis settings). My cars sims have it not reversed, and my aircraft has it reversed, I can't tell exactly which is right based on motion I've felt so far.
  13. pmvcda

    pmvcda aka FlyPT

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    We are accelerating a car to a ramp, to make a jump...

    When the car enters the ramp, we feel a force going up. Pressure in the butt, so the rig should go up.
    While the car goes up it's still happening.
    When the car leaves the ramp and we are still going up, it's the same.
    The moment the car starts going down in the air, you start feeling weightless, so the pressure in the butt reduces. The rig should move down.
    When the car lands on the floor, you get another kick in the butt. The rig goes up. It might even oscillate if you have a soft suspension.

    In air planes, it's the same.

    The reason you swap direction, might be because of the data received from the game.
    I have this problem with FlyPT Mover. I need to go over all sources to verify if directions are the same in all.
    Different games, different directions/coordinate systems.
  14. gbdesai

    gbdesai New Member Gold Contributor

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    That's for the great explanation. Yes, I understood it this way too, however I never considered the game may be reversing the numbers. Will have to experiment. Thanks!
  15. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Irrespective of that, if you have a offset when the aircraft is flying straight and level the data will clip earlier then it should and increasing the sensitivity will only make this happen earlier - maybe not a big issue for some sims, but not a good thing in my book.
  16. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    The sway feels fine to me, do you have a 6DOF, or something capable of real sway? Otherwise sway subtracting from the roll would be a false cue.
  17. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    Yes, it’s recommended to use the values above 1 in Tuning center. Try to set it at -+2 and apply simtools washout.

    This should work. The question is: do you really need the sensitivity close or below 1 ?
  18. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    @SeatTime ,
    I mean whatever you do inside the plugin, between normal and inverted flight we have 2G difference which seems perfectly logical.

    Scenario 1 (starting with heave at 0)

    Now, if you output in the plugin the vertical G with a “center value 0G”, (your platform will start cantered) and you will get -2G while inverted.

    Imagine, in this case, if you scale your platform intensity -+ 1 you will get the motion scaled up to 1G in normal conditions. Than if you will do an inverted flight, your cue will clip and you’ll not get any heave motion. Everything below -1 will be skipped and will provide heave clipping cuts while going above -1.

    Scenario 2 (starting with heave +1)

    In this case you might want to scale your heave +- 2 and apply a High Pass filter (washout)

    The washout will bring the heave to the center and you will have 1G travel up and 1G travel down. (I mean 1G room for normal flight and 1G room for inverted flight before Tuning Center will clip)

    In this scenario you will still receive heave cues in inverted flight.

    What do you prefer: scenario 1 or 2 ?

    EDIT:

    If you go with „Scenario 2“, it will reduce your geometrical intensity limit (axis travel) in the plugin.

    Knowing that in this case your axis clips before the assigned max travel, you just have to exaggerate your 6-dof plugin’s heave travel in order to compensate your heave ability.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  19. hexpod

    hexpod http://heXpod.xyz

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    I believe the right thing to do would be to HPF the heave in the plugin before it hits the simtools scaling.

    Maybe somebody could make an attempt to provide an example in VB.

    @yobuddy I guess you have a lot of experience with washout in VB. Maybe you could help with this.
  20. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    That's Ok, just though I would give some feedback.
    Thanks for the comment. My rig was designed to work a bit differently to most Eg if you carry out a turn the rig will roll but you will be centered and held into the seat by the G vest with sway and heave forces if specified - all the transitions are very smooth and my inner ear is happy. The main issue with the heave offset is for my G systems and I always rather not use filters if I don't have to, as they seem to generate these odd secondary movements even against a constant force which often just don't feel real (I know there should be a transition as the force on the pilot drops off, but it just seems too quick/abrupt). I will soon sit down and work my way through all the filters and each DOF separately and see what works best (for me). It all ends up being very subjective and related to the capabilities of your rig.