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Do you think oculus rift will support motion simulators?

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by Thanatosx, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. dustin

    dustin Member Gold Contributor

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    I have a Oculus Rift and after building my 2dof motion sim i exsperinced the following problem no coding can fix . Oculus munts to your head with a strap holding a screen in front of your face . any head jiggling causes screen blur , my favorite game dirt 3 for instance wouldnt be playable even if coding can acount for the sim movement for the depth cam , your eyes are still trying to focus on a screen tht is jiggling infront of your eyes, ive tryd to make the strap very tight so oculus was firm on my face still did very little to help . Im considering the option of using three nice screens and use head tracking .
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Can you tell us how you have the Oculus sensor set up. What you are describing sounds like a common problem, a lack of motion cancellation for VR with a motion simulator.
  3. dustin

    dustin Member Gold Contributor

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    i was actually refering to the movement of the oculus on your face durring jerky movements . however the best oculus -motion sim . i would say is no limits 2 rollercoaster just mount depth camera on desk or wall infront of sim
  4. dustin

    dustin Member Gold Contributor

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    my sim moves the wheels and pedals i liked the feel better this way. and it seemed more versitial i can remove the wheel mount if im playing space games or doing rollercoaster rides in the oculus

    Attached Files:

  5. dustin

    dustin Member Gold Contributor

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    This is a pic of my second sim my next ones will be a bit lighter and im gonna try and sell a few
  6. jimmcquade

    jimmcquade Member

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    I was thinking to use the rift , but turn off the motion tracking. I don't really move my head much anyway when I drive. Or could you just use the side to side axis of the rifts motion tracking to glance left/right? You don't need up down tracking for racing.
  7. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Trust me @jimmcquade, you need all axis and accurate tracking with the Rift or you risk making yourself sick. VR is not like head tracking with a monitor. With VR the tracking and movement needs to match what your brain expects in real life on all axis. Despite what you may think your head does move as part of normal equilibrium. Just watch the head of an F1 driver as they lean into a corning and how much vibration based head movement there is.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. leefromseattle

    leefromseattle New Member

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    You have to modify the LibOVR source to override the orientation from the gyro in the rift.

    A few months ago I got to test drive the internal prototype at oculus's office in Seattle and their biggest concern is people making experiences that run at too low fps magnifying the motion sickness. They were saying a single bad experience ruins a persons view of VR for life.

    In some ways the low resolution on the dk1 provided a better (smoother) experience than dk2.

    I have a gearVR as well but it's a mobile gpu running at higher resolution than the rift.......meh. It's workflow is completely retarded as well, can't just plug your phone into your computer and deploy to it for development, you have to build an apk, transfer it to the device, install it, plug it into the actual mask, and cover a sensor to get it to show on the screen.

    Really hoping the htc vive ups the VR worlds game.
  9. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    I have posted Palmer's comments re VR sickness and motion simulators several times in the past @leefromseattle...I have to say I consider them to be uninformed and have pointed out many times that Palmer's comments are equally applicable to the Rift itself.

    The fact is a good many of us already use motion simulators and the Rift all the time. Yes, like all VR it has to be setup properly.

    As a hardened VR veteran of the DK1 and DK2 I have found it is more likely that game issues like judder and changing viewpoint where the user remains seated (FPSs) are more likely to make someone sick than using the Rift with my motion simulator. I recently had a VR virgin friend play both Assetto Corsa at Nords and Prepar3D with the Rift and my motion simulator for several hours straight, with no ill effects, but he was brought undone in moments by Birdy King Land with no motion simulation and spent the next hour flat on his back on my lounge floor recovering.

    Like you I am hoping the Vive breaks down the walled Oculus approach and opens up rather than limits VR opportunities, particularly with respect to motion simulators and VR, as they are awesome together.
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    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  10. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with @noorbeast - from my experience with DK2 and motion simulators (which I now use together all the time) is that good synchronized motion + VR is not just an excellent combination, but combats motion sickness. I can ride on No limits 2 all day without an issue with motion, but turn it off and after a short while I can feel motion sickness coming on. I cannot understand why Palmer is not at least exploring this patho_O.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. leefromseattle

    leefromseattle New Member

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    Absolutely adding motion will reduce sickness. Low latency also helps visual comfort(opposite problem, your head is moving but what you see isn't updating fast enough and it's immediately uncomfortable). The opposite, your visuals are moving but body isn't moving and motion would help tremendously.

    If I throw a bunch of dynamic lights on a high poly model with no optimizations (25fps or something low) and you look at it on the rift, it hurts immediately. If you turn away from it in the same scene, to objects with 1 or no lights, the fps triples and it's comfortable.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  12. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    From what both of you have posted noorbeast and SeatTime, it appears you are stating motion sickness from no motion only after first using motion for a period of time or after being a “hardened VR veteran”. Once your brain has been conditioned and acclimated to motion, removing it therefore feels incorrect now causing your brain confusion and motion sickness imo. Personally, I have never felt motion sickness when not using motion with games like No Limits but I’ve never tried immediately after using motion either. Its possible also that using VR headsets makes you more sensitive to motion/non-motion since all other outside visual references are removed. I am waiting on VR headsets to mature more before purchasing myself. I agree though that “good synchronized motion” is a must regardless of using VR headsets or not!
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Actually I was giving the example how a total VR newbie coped just fine with VR and motion together, but like many others got VR sickness in moments with just a particular type of VR experience.

    I have found that our motion rigs with a good motion profile are actually comfortable for first time VR users, as it is a seated experience where they are in control, and that feels pretty natural to them.

    To check just how important a good motion profile is just reverse the axis the wrong way and drive or fly around a bit in VR, very unsettling!
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Just for information, I also have never had motion sickness from just using monitors for any game with or without motion even after hours of use - VR is a different world - it just not no outside reference it just that it feels so real and can really mess with your head. You do build up a tolerance, I don't actually get physically sick anymore, it just certain games without motion that can make me feel 'off' and not comfortable to use - you learn to listen to your body. Sorry for all the edits, but it is not an easy thing for me to explain. Still love using VR though and would not go back to monitors on my sim.
    • Agree Agree x 1
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    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  15. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for explaining a little more about your experiences on this topic guys :). Like I said, I have not used VR yet, only 3d Vision w/trackir5 on a 67" dlp monitor that was 20 inches in front of my face. Sometimes the 3d on that did make me a little sick at times (with and without motion) but I was usually already feeling a little off anyway when that happened. It could be that the added perception of depth with 3d and VR makes one even more perceptible to motion sickness if everything is not just right.
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    In VR it is not just the 3D depth but how smooth that is, hence the need for very high frame rates, even at the cost of image quality, and 1:1 tracking accuracy.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. matt_r

    matt_r New Member

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    Would mounting the Rift camera to the frame with the seat fix the disorientation caused by the headset moving with seat movement against a fixed camera point?
  18. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    The Rift camera mounted to a sim will work for gentle flight simming, but not for harsh racing or even combat flight. Many of have tried it but you can't adequately isolate the Rift camera from the vibrations our powerful rigs are capable of, which messes with the camera tracking. That said I will be doing some ongoing experiments around the vibration issue, I am just waiting on one final part to arrive.
  19. cthiggin

    cthiggin Active Member

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    Fellows,
    This is a very good thread as I want to go with the "Rift" when it's RTM / or / one of the other up and coming VR units..........
    Isn't it "odd", that when I go deep-sea fishing, and far out away from land, with movement of boat, that I'll get sicker than an ol' dog IF I haven't taken ginger tablets or use a dermapatch....
    And now, in our "realm of motion sims and Rift" that w/o motion, we get sick.............for the life of me, I cannot get my head around that concept.....

    Tom
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    In VR feeling ill is generally because what you see does not match what your brain expects.

    So forgetting motions sims for a moment, if you instead play a fast paced FPS your body is in a fixed seated position but your game character is running around all over the place. While in VR you can move your head and look around, in most existing FPS you have to move your body to the direction you are looking in to shoot something, which is quite unnatural. If you add in some judder, which is visual jarring of the scene where the computer can't draw the scene quick enough to keep pace with your movement, you can make most people feel a little ill.

    A well set up motion sim profile actually provides additional motion ques that seem realistic, except for the problem of a Rift camera being mounted off a rig. So in Assetto Corsa the visual experience in VR is more like the Real Head Tracking mod, except you can see all around, and the motion feels like that of the car rather than visual shaking, which is what most people's brain expect.