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DD-Wheel with Hoverboard Motor

Discussion in 'Direct Drive Wheels' started by Benu, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Benu

    Benu Member

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    The encoder signals shouldn't be a problem although I haven't used a capacitive encoders. The problem I see is how to mount the encoder to the hoverboard motor. The CUI encoders are made to be fixed on a rotating motor shaft. But you cannot mount it to the hoverboard motor shaft as this is not moving.

    The motor shaft (16mm) will be clamped to a rig. The wheel will be operated by your hands from the front. The only way to fix an encoder to the moving parts will be from the backside of the wheel.

    According to the CUI datasheet the max supported opening is 8mm. Removing the shaft adapter will lead to something >8mm. If you somehow can get a bit more than 16mm you could fix the capacitve wheel to the back of the motor and the electronics part to the shaft. That would do the trick.

    It would be a great alternative to magnetic encoders.

    EDIT:
    Just saw your solution to the problem :thumbs. Would the dismantled CUI encoder have enough room for the 16mm motor shaft?
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  2. Erik Green

    Erik Green Member

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    The encoder has a complete programmable onboard processor. The output is a square wave 0- 5v.

    No. The encoder will not fit the 16mm shaft. Wonder if they have any other models the would. It would be really nice to keep the encoder internal. I am going to set it up so the cable will break away in the event of a runaway of the motor etc. Especially during initial commissioning.
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  3. Benu

    Benu Member

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    I haven't seen any fitting models in their product line.

    Yeah, you will have to use an predetermined breaking point anyway if you attach a wheel with shifters and buttons. Magnets would be nice for that.
    Unless of course you make your wheel wireless.
  4. BiT0

    BiT0 Member

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    On the quest for a suitable controller once more I request your knowledge.
    What about this one?
    http://www.dcmotorkeya.com/12-24-48...controller-10-50DPW30BL,300w-400-17-43-1.html
    30A and with current control mode.
    Saw it in Ranch thread here: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/hello-diy-future-3dof-with-bldc-motors.12982/
  5. Benu

    Benu Member

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    I don't think that will work.
    1. The controller uses hall sensors for position feedback. The resolution of these hall sensors is not high enough for our purpose.
    2. The data table says "Pole: 4 or 8". A hoverboard motor has 30 poles (15 pole pairs). That won't work either, sorry.

    You could ask the guys at st.com why the IHM08M1 is currently not available. Maybe they are just waiting for a new batch.
  6. Erik Green

    Erik Green Member

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    Check Mouser Electronics www.mouser.com
    They are supposed to have the X-NUCLEO-IHM08M1 available for US$41.25 by the end of the month.
    I got my pre-order in before posting this of course............

    Excited to get a wheel going soon.

    Erik
  7. Benu

    Benu Member

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    That‘s good news. Did you order the Nucleo-F303RE with it or do you already have that?
  8. Erik Green

    Erik Green Member

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    I had already ordered the F303RE from another site.
  9. wannabeaflyer2

    wannabeaflyer2 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Guys following this as ima bit of a maker and these are bits I have laying around waiting for use :) came across this controller and would like to ask for your thoughts about its possible use ....BLD-300B BLDC motor driver ..
    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...252340172760&usg=AOvVaw1g6c3e1OpwoeFqkJwPBzmU

    my Hover board motors already have the hall sensors built in so from plug n play perspective this controller does the basic's in terms of driving the motor, my next thought was if I could somehow add and optical encoder to provide positional feedback , would this then allow me to interface this with FF controller you guys are using .. ??
  10. Frederiksen

    Frederiksen New Member

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    Going off post #69 I will need the following items:
    - NUCLEO-F303RE (CortexM4) as the control board
    - X-NUCLEO-IHM08M1 as the inverter (10-48V and 30A max.)
    - a second hand 12V server power supply
    - a Hoverboard motor 36v 250W
    - Arduino as interface to system
    - An encoder

    Is that correct?

    If I were to use Danove's motor driver thing based on an h bridge what would that replace?

    Does the encoder solution with the magnetic ring work well?

    Also does anyone have a hoverboard motor they want to get rid of? I live in the United States.
  11. Benu

    Benu Member

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    That's correct. The list shows the main components to build the wheel base.

    If you use the solution @danove_b is working on you do not need
    - NUCLEO-F303RE (CortexM4) as the control board
    - X-NUCLEO-IHM08M1 as the inverter (10-48V and 30A max.)

    Yes, the magnetic encoder works great. No problems so far.
  12. Benu

    Benu Member

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    Please have a look at post #105. The motor controller you are suggesting has the same limitations.
    Apart from that, this controller uses speed control to drive the motor. For our purpose we need torque control.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. wannabeaflyer2

    wannabeaflyer2 Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Benu thanks for the update , I went back over the post and realised my mistake so will need to follow your work more closely . I have both Brushless and Dc motor suitable for building a DIY FFB wheel so its decision time . Cheers for presenting a cool Project option for this wannabe maker of things :)
    • Like Like x 1
  14. BiT0

    BiT0 Member

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    Myself have to thank Benu and danove_b for such a cool project.
    And Benu's patience in answering my questions. I often fell so dumb...
    But this hoverboard DD wheel project got me really overexcited in the hope to being able to realize it myself.

    I understend it is still a pioneristic territory, where those more skilled are experimenting different solutions in controllers, encoder, sw.
    But nevertheless it is much more appelling to me than more extablished and replicable solutions.

    It would be great to understand more about danove_b's approach too.
    I read he refears a DIY board: I was not able to locate the video he spoke about, in the cousin-osw thread.
    Anyway he states it is built around the btn8982 half bridge. That confuse me a bit, but as said I am almost ignorant in the matter, because the Infineon shield build around it (like https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/evaluation-boards/dc-motorcontr_btn8982/) is declared for brushed DC motor control.
    Digging the Infineon website I stumble upon two new other shield declared for BLDC:

    The BLDC-SHIELD_IFX007T
    https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/evaluation-boards/bldc-shield_ifx007t/
    It has three IFX007T half-bridges, 8-40v, 30A.
    By its manual the current applied to the motor can be controlled by the duty cycle of PWM

    Another one is the BLDC_SHIELD_TLE9879
    https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/evaluation-boards/bldc_shield_tle9879/
    Maybe even more interesting: specific for BLDC.
    It has the TLE9879QXA40 chip. The features report 3-phase motor driving, FOC control algorithm too.
    Maybe its limitation is the 10A current output.

    Sorry if once more they are useless for your (hopefully soon to be our.. ) project.
    But as I said I am really excited by the idea of a BLDC DD wheel.

    Bye and thank you for the work and the share
  15. Benu

    Benu Member

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    You are welcome!

    Maybe I can jump in (@danove_b please correct me if do not get it right).
    You can find the referenced video of his setup in post #42 in this thread.

    The BTN8982 is a half bridge and suitable to drive one phase of a DC motor. So you need two of those to drive a brushed DC motor. A brushless DC motor has three phases and you can use three BTN8982 to drive a BLDC. The BTN8982 has a peak current rating of 55A and an average current rating of 30A. That makes a very good choice to drive the hoverboard motor. On top of that it is not very expensive.
    If you like you can find good resources on the internet about the differences between brushed and brushless motors.

    danove_b's approach is to build a DD-Wheel without having to deal with FOC or other computing intensive calculations. So an Arduino and an inverter board will be able to do the job.
  16. BiT0

    BiT0 Member

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    Thank you Benu.
    Yep, I am studying and learning a lot, here and around the internet.
    I am absolutly in love with BLDC motors and any kind of solution built around them (do you know the Opentorque project, thinking if it may fit a 2DOF platform...LOL).
    What is strange is that in my researches I've found lot of a academic papers about current control of BLDC motors but very few applied project, everything around is toward speed control.

    Back to the project. I was supposing something like you explained and sure that scenario is interesting in its simplicity.
    In my previous planned project about the MY1020, that I followed on an italian forum, half bridge were used too (the BTS7690 btw, note the BTN8982 ).
    The trouble is that for brushed motor application the evaluation board ready available from Infineon are fine with their dual chip on-board.

    Instead as danove_b reported, he had to build a DIY custom board with three of those BTN8982. To design such a board is far over my skills.
    That's why I am on the search for a ready made board. Had much hope about those two evaluation board from Infineno I suggested yesterday, ecpecially the BLDC-SHIELD IFX007T, which is built around three IX007T half bridge.

    An arduino + a ready made shield + a nice solution for the encoder (like the Erik Green one, your too is fine but those magnetic rings are themself very hard to source...) would made this project suitables for us dummies too.
    Had time to check the IFX007T and confirm one more I pointed an unsuitable board? LOL
  17. danove_b

    danove_b Active Member

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    https://photos.app.goo.gl/nw899RNqkwEj77cB7

    The btn is actually very simple to use. You can connect it directly by 100k res to your mcu. No need to use buffers as on the IBT-2. I'm sorry I haven't made any progress in my project, to much work at the moment, but I haven't given it up. I have just bought a 3d printer, so that will make everything more fun. Hopefully I will continue with this in July.
  18. BiT0

    BiT0 Member

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    LOL me too just got my 3d printer, an Ender 3. Mounting it rihjt now.
    es expect lot of fun and busy printing: the usual printer self-upgrading parts, chess sets and obviously lot of stuff simracing related.
    Maybe one day also a nice enclouser for this project kinda those on thingverse for the MY1020 driving whell base.
  19. Benu

    Benu Member

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    Well, the BTN8982 and the IFX007 both are half bridges. Looking at the data-sheets the two circuits look very much alike. The BTN8982 is produced for automotive and the IFX007 build for industry applications. You could use two BTN8982 shields, connect just three of the four half bridges and drive a BLDC motor. With the correct wiring that should work.
    If I may ask, what is the reasoning behind your conclusion the BLDC-SHIELD IFX007 is unsuitable?
  20. BiT0

    BiT0 Member

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    Hi Benu,
    I had not conclusion the IFX007 is unuitable, as opposite I was in the hope it was suitable!:)
    That sentence in mine post was indeed an attempt of joking at myself:p for being a dummy that before pointed many unsuitable controllers...
    My english is not good, thus maybe the self-irony was not evident.

    Indeed I was browsing the daisy about attempting the project with it: was in the hope of a positive sign by somebody with adequate knowledge like youhug:

    With an Arduino UNO and the redy made IFX shield, the project shifts much toward software side, where I am more in my shoes, to find proper code to feed the half bridges.
    I really think I'll try this as soon as possible