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Cousin of OSW (Open Sim Wheel)

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Gadget999, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Active Member

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    I had the wheel spin like that a few times

    I was using a tick box to reverse the motor direction

    I swapped the polarity and the motor was ok
  2. Fernando Igor

    Fernando Igor Member

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    Does the crash and the steering wheel spin to one side forever? When experiencing this problem, check the Windows game controllers if the steering wheel axis is in the opposite direction of the rotation of the ffb.
    If so, this may be a problem with the encoder "faulty wiring" (bad contact). (or maybe the arduino can not read the pulse so fast)
    When you drive the steering wheel loses its center?

    Another problem you must have is a large dead zone of FFB,because use 12v for 24v motor, but you can change the FFB curve in the AC to fix.
  3. The_Raging_Peacock

    The_Raging_Peacock New Member

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    Thanks for advice guys the invert tick box trick worked i guess. The problem did not repeat this afternoon when i was messing with the game and settings. I also tried powering it with 24V using my bench power supply. On low gains it can keep up but if i turn it up the 5A current limit starts kicking in so i will order a 24v 20oW-> PSU soon. Even running 120W the torque is insane and plenty strong for me. Another thing that i did is attach an old CPU cooler to the IBT-2 and that made it run a lot cooler :) I will try to run a dead zone test and see how bad it actually is... altho i can already feel some just playing. Does anyone use their wheel for drifting in AC? Because i have a couple of questions about that aswell. But thanks again both of you for replying quick and help me figure this out.
  4. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Active Member

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    can we see a video of it working ?
  5. The_Raging_Peacock

    The_Raging_Peacock New Member

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    Sure i will record a short clip tomorrow :)
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  6. Benu

    Benu Member

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    Hi @danove_b,

    just saw your post and have been reading the MMos thread over at virtualracing some time ago. There was a discussion about the BLDC output capabilities in February 2016

    Thema: [DIY] USB Force Feedback Controller (page 136)

    MMos seems to have implemented the feature but not tested it. He was willing to support if someone would volunteer to test.

    Best Regards,

    Benu
  7. danove_b

    danove_b Member

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    I understand that they talk about the bldc output, but unfortunately I cannot speak German, so I use Google translate and then it sounds like he stopped developing that part.
  8. Benu

    Benu Member

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    What I understand, there is an early implementation of BLDC support in MMos but neither tested nor refined. The original poster bought an OSW instead and I saw no further mention of the BLDC feature in MMos.
    It is unclear if the already implemented code is working. In his replies MMos said, that he did not find a usable and reasonably priced driver to test his implementation. He would have tested it with a Swedish open source driver (vedder.se) if there was someone interested and he had the time. As the original poster lost interest that never happened.
    I have no idea if MMos is still developing the FFB-SW or if he moved on to other projects.

    I am thinking about upgrading from my Logitech DFGT but an OSW is way out of my budget. The path you and Gadget999 choose seems to be a reasonable one to go as I am not so interested in more "rumble" for the wheel but would like to have a better feeling for the car.
    If you could start from scratch would you (and @Gadget999) follow the same path as you did?
  9. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Active Member

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    i am pleased with the way the wheel works - i am continually searching for alternative motors but would definitely build another this way

    i think a electric power steering motor may make a good base
  10. danove_b

    danove_b Member

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    Initially, my plan was to build a "Son of open sim wheel", but soon i realized that Craig didn't seem that interested to deliver the needed driver card, and also felt that I wanted control of the construction if something failed in the future. First when the MY1020 motor arrived, the magnetic "cogging" worried a bit, but now with my finished product with a max torque of 7.6 Nm it's only noticeable when driving very slow. Also this motor is kind of unbalanced, It need's higher voltage in the reverse direction to reach the same current/torque as in the forward direction. Because I have my own sw, this was easy to compensate. I will continue this season with this wheel, but maybe in the future if the MMOs can control a BLDC motor directly, I think I will order that tiny servo motor I mentioned in a earlier post. Mostly because of the enormous amount of power this solution take. When I drive a race, the average power consumption i about 220 w so a cooling fan on the motor is a most have. If you wan't a wheel with lower ffb, I should not recommend the MY1020, but if you want it almost like in a go-kart, go for it! I realized that I've got blisters in may hands after a hour of race, so maybe I must start to wear gloves...
    The F1 car I drive (rfactor2 AOR F1) has great ffb. (My ffb multiplier in rfactor is 0.27)
  11. The_Raging_Peacock

    The_Raging_Peacock New Member

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    Hello guys as requested i recorded and uploaded a simple(poorly made) video of my FFB wheel.
    A couple things i should metion: For the first 2 gain was set quite low because of my PSU, you can also hear the PSU clicking away in the last clip when going over its 5A rating(limting the current) I know its bad for the PSU but i had to give it a go ;)
    You can also notice my quite large deadzone :( Any ideas on how to improve it? I saw your suggestion Fernando Igor, but i dont know where to find that curve setting. There is also clipping present in the AC test as seen on the red bad next to pedal controls. And don't laugh at my mock-up wooden wheel with ribbed plastic conduit and tape :'D I hope i get a 35cm wheel soon. I'm still a noob at this and figuring things out day by day.
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  12. Benu

    Benu Member

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    If I followed the discussion correctly you are using a different setup than danove_b. A different motor and no SW adjustment within the arduino?

    @Gadget999 and @danove_b and all the others of course
    What would be your motor specifications to look for if you wanted a detailed feedback of from the wheel?
    Is there a way to tell which motor is prone to cogging without having it installed in your rig?
    I understand that you can compensate some of the motor/system limitations by software and that really is a great way improve the system. But it would be better not having to do that in the first place.

    I am looking for a good feedback where on the road the car is and what is happening to the car.
    You should be able to feel...
    ... when you are driving on the low curbs and you notice when curbs are higher (but not in a way that it has to break your wrist)
    ... when you start loosing grip and when you have grip again
    ... probably many other things I do not know of - to move a racing car fast - as I have never driven one.

    I get some of this information from the DFGT but very weak and through the gears in the wheel not very accurate. Sometimes only the rattling of the gears in the DFGT tells me there is something going on with the car.
  13. Benu

    Benu Member

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    The beta users seemed to be very positive about the controller he developed. Your system should be less expensive. Would be nice if we could compare the results.
    It always helps to have the option for compensation in SW. In one of your earlier posts you said using a higher voltage motor would be beneficial. Do you still recommend that? Please also see my reply and request for motor specifications to Gadget999's post.
    The idea of using a BLDC is intriguing. It should be powerful and easier on the PSU. I wonder why there are no sim wheels built with a BLDC. Maybe a decent controller is to complex/expensive?
    If the comparison to the go-kart includes the feeling for the handling of the go-kart...
  14. Fernando Igor

    Fernando Igor Member

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    I dont know if can post a link from an external site/forum, search the google "LUT Generator for AC", you will find what need to correct the curve in Assetto Corsa :thumbs.
    If you need to adjust a dead zone and correct oscillations at the ends of the pedals, you can use the software "DXTweak2"
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  15. danove_b

    danove_b Member

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    To Benu:

    I see no benefit at all with higher voltage. The higher voltage is only needed when the motor rotate with a higher speed and generates back EMF. I think most of the more expensive wheels have their max speed limited. (Accuforce 300 rpm). Most of the time the motor is in stall, and you don't need so much voltage to generate the current. The MY1020 i have is made for 36 VDC, and I feed it with a maximum voltage about 11,1 volt that gives me about 85 A at stall.

    My goal wasn't to have a wheel that could hurt my arms. Before I started to use this wheel, I was quite happy with my G27, but the rattling from the gear was driving me crazy. The benefit that i didn't expect from this simple solution was the additional detail in ffb. With the G27 I always setup the car kind of understeery to avoid spins. That resulted in a high wear on the front tires. With this wheel, the oversteer almost take care of it self, like in a real car.
    I'm using only rfactor2, what I understand has the best ffb and physics. (At least the most realistic...). Also a big difference to the G27 is the response time for the ffb. If i tried to compensate the enormous deadzone with G27 with minimum torque, it started to oscillate.

    Hopefully i will make a video soon that's show more than my words....
  16. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Active Member

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    my wheel is connected directly to the motor - they type of motor i am using is 350w and has no cogging
    i use a small diameter steering wheel similar to the type used in a racing car - this increases the torque
    there is no software adjustment - the wheel has the same power in both directions

    you can see the wheel here - the ringing noise has gone by choosing a higher frequency of the PWM



    you can fee the bumps, kerbs, torque steer, and traction loss with this wheel - it is better than anything else i have tested
  17. Benu

    Benu Member

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    I like the „non cogging“ part of your motor. Do you know what manufacturer or model your motor is or where I could buy one? As far as I can tell from your pictures it is neither a MY1016 nor a XYD-6B like I see them on current shop sites.
  18. Gadget999

    Gadget999 Active Member

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  19. Benu

    Benu Member

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    My question regarding the higher voltage motor was related to your remark in post #103. „Remember that the motor mostly are working in "stall" mode, which doesn't require so much voltage to reach maximum current. That's why i realized (posted in a earlier post) that a 100 volt motor should be better suited because of more turns of winding = more low rpm torque with less current. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) The higher voltage is only required to reach higher rpms when the the motor starts producing back EMF.“

    So as I understand my target should be a
    - (mostly) non-cogging motor
    - with high torque
    - at low current
    to get
    - a detailed and responsive force feedback
    - without frying the windings
    - and keeping the ibt-2 and the motor luke warm.
    What I read in this thread a motor like the one Gadget999 uses (no cogging) with specs of 60V to 100V (high torqe at stall) and a supply voltage 12V to 24V (no need for more for low rpm) should be a very good choice.

    I am completely with you. That exactely describes the problems with my DFGT and what I am aiming for. There is so much detail lost in the DFGT gears.

    That would be great. Would also like to see the compensation sketches you did in action.
  20. Alexey

    Alexey Well-Known Member

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    Motor voltage does affect torque. In short, simple terms you cannot escape img978.png (E being the back EMF component)
    So the smaller V is, the smaller I (current) becomes and thus less magnetic flux, thus less torque.

    A quick visualization.
    eIjJF.jpg