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Lesson CHEAP CHINESE MONSTER MOTO CLONES AND PROBLEMS

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by SilentChill, Sep 12, 2016.

  1. bruce stephen

    bruce stephen Hammer doesnt fix it, must be electrical

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I'm glad I don't have these issues with the motos. Wish you all the luck. Maybe you just need a more robust driver? You can try the supplier I have used In The past. Although I make no guarantee.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/191674295987?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Its not the re-sellers who are the issue its the manufacturer. Very much still a lottery. I spent some time checking spares that I had bought recently and while they all basically worked, when put under a decent load they just overheated and failed :(. Sims still working OK, but once one of the cards goes I will likely change over to the Sabertooths - Really for the waste of time/effort and hair just spend the money on Sabertooths :).
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    The conclusion of all: We spend so much money on this better to spend some more and buy Sabertooths. Whish you all a nice weekend :)
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. OZHEAT

    OZHEAT Active Member

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    @SilentChill @SeatTime
    I got my MMs delivered today.
    l have opened and tested 1 only so far, both half bridges are working, nothing for me to do to the board except connect control and power wires.
    Currently the mm is on a testing cycle of fwd & rev with a 250w & 100w scooter motors @12v.
    All protection functions tested & working. Not overheating.

    Maybe I bought the wrong ones because they don't look exactly the same as the ones in your pics.
    The ones that I got have the sparkfun logo and sparkfun.com printed on the back and have a rev 11/3/10 etched on bottom right corner. Note
    Construction of the board looks a lot neater with smooth solder joints, I cannot see under the chips as there is no clearance.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. bruce stephen

    bruce stephen Hammer doesnt fix it, must be electrical

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    @OZHEAT these are the same ones we were getting around June 2015. Just be sure to cool them and not over work them. They work well despite the negative press. It can just be a pain to get a good working set sometimes. I have a dozen mm's running with no problems. Hopefully you got a good batch.

    Edit: make sure all connections are tight. One loose connection can cause big problems.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Alexey

    Alexey Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I've generally found the motors that are rated at 200W from motion dynamics can draw up to 32 amp spikes, measured on my current meter.
    This puts them in the vicinity of drawing 380W. I'd say that when given a wattage rating on the motor it is more of a safe operating wattage for the motor to be able to dissipate the heat generated in the coils at the stated power rating rather than an expected power consumption figure.

    I can purposely fry a MM by holding the lever arm in place and getting the software to try and move the motor. I have found that reducing the lever arm length I can greatly reduce the current going through the motor. I started with a 60mm lever arm and then reduced it to 40mm. The current draw went from 32 amp peaks to 25 amp peaks. It doesn't help that that the gearboxes were already ruined (poor backlash made worse) by using the 60mm lever arms. Also probably the most important part is that the sim had connecting rods at around the middle of my chest rather than shoulder height (less levearge at chest height).

    Also, I always solder all wires to the MM. Using bolts and screws is asking for trouble. If you do use bolts and screws ensure there is no corrosion on the pads/screws/bolts as this will cause a contact resistance to occur, or just a really poor contact area.
    • Informative Informative x 2
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
  7. SilentChill

    SilentChill Problem Maker

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    You bought the correct ones, its just pot luck what type you get. Seems my luck is terrible with these things.
  8. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I have boards with identical markings - some still failed - lottery...:rolleyes:.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    As a different solution, I had ordered some VNH2SP30 chips from Pololu direct - https://www.pololu.com/product/537 and they seem to be working fine in my usual tests - what was noticeable is that they did not get hot at all while running 200w motors (no coolers/no extra load). Maybe a solution for some who would rather not change their complete setup when just one chip fails (me..:)). Obviously you would also need the skills to carry out the chip replacement.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  10. Tim McGuire

    Tim McGuire "Forever a work in progress"

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I did that when I needed my MMs fixed in a pinch. They're also guaranteed to be up to spec if you buy them through a legitimate supply chain (digikey, pololu, mouser, etc.) since you can be sure that they're being sourced from the correct place and that they've passed QA.

    The only downside there is that a single IC costs about as much as a whole clone MM board :p. The reason we can get them so cheap is that the Chinese suppliers are either using fake/cloned chips, or sneaking batches of ICs that failed QA testing off the factory floor.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  11. bruce stephen

    bruce stephen Hammer doesnt fix it, must be electrical

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    20161211_122842.jpg
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Ouch!
    • Agree Agree x 3
  13. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

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    Did Samsung manufacture that one? :D
    • Funny Funny x 5
  14. bruce stephen

    bruce stephen Hammer doesnt fix it, must be electrical

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    maybe just needs a new IC is all. A little reflow and good as new.:eek:
    • Funny Funny x 6
  15. fafay

    fafay New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    oh my god!!!!
    Me who wanted to buy a Chinese copy ....
    I do not want to be the mergez on the barbecue
    thanks for info
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. bruce stephen

    bruce stephen Hammer doesnt fix it, must be electrical

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I run 12 cheap Chinese copies with no problems. This was caused by a disconnected wire........
  17. OZHEAT

    OZHEAT Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    l think a lot of people are not realizing what the differences are between motor driver and a motor controller are.

    A motor Driver is usually just a h-bridge, some with protections such as current limit, over temp and under voltage.
    You control the driver by manipulating the different legs of the h-bridge with either hard wiring and switches or use a computer/microcontroller to control the legs. Examples are moto monster, ibt2 & pololu motor drivers

    A motor controller also includes a motor driver but adds a microcontroller so it is more intelligent.
    The function of the microcontroller is to accept commands via usb/serial interface or analog, it will also provide additional protections.
    The main difference in the protection is in the current limiting, ever wonder why the manufacturer can give such a bulletproof warranty?
    The microcontroller will monitor current usage and will shutdown the bridge if it gets to IT's artificial 'current limit' not the bridge current limit.
    Case in point. Pololu VNH2SP30 motor driver is rated 14A/30A. While the pololu jrk 12v12 is rated at 12A/30A.
    Both use the same vnh2sp30 chip, the VNH2SP30 motor driver uses the current limit of the chip while the JRK uses a setpoint in the microcontroller which activates before the bridge, henceforth the lower current limit.
    Examples of motor controllers are Pololu JRK, roboclaw and sabretooth controller.

    You can also think of it this way...
    a motor controller as a soft limit, you are approaching bridge limits so shutdown before reaching it.
    a motor driver as a hard limit, you have exceeded bridge limit and has shutdown.

    It wouldn't be too hard to make SMC3 to control a moto monster or ibt2 and monitor current to make it act similarly to a commercial motor controller, you just wouldn't be able to control 3 motors from 1 ardinio as you would run out of analog pins.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Evan Rowlands

    Evan Rowlands EMR Industries

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    ive got a collection very much like you now lol..
    ive found the real deal tho and never had an issues since and i get 12 months warranty with the boards.. ive bought 6 and so far no issues straight out the box.. another thing to look for is the lights on the board . the power light should be red and the direction lights should be green if its a real spark fun board.. if there all red then its a fake.. saying this i do have 2 clones that ive had no issue with but 2 out of 18 is good..the boards cost $106.00AUD with 12 months warranty from CORE ELECTRONIC

    hope this helps out some of you
    cheers
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. BrassEm

    BrassEm G-Seat + SFX100 Builder

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Thanks Evan, Good info there. It has helped me. My MM's were red both ways. They had good motor control, but the chips just wanted to burn up on unloaded motors. I've spent so much time and effort in my project, why cheap out now on a critical component?
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. bruce stephen

    bruce stephen Hammer doesnt fix it, must be electrical

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    636.00 on motos why not just go sabertooth as recommended above.
    ps that price buys me 130 clones. they can be a pain to change i guess
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017