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Car chassis project

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by sim2go, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    i have read that backlash is imminent, unless precision gears or other type reducers are used.

    thank you for suggestion, will try shorter distance as axis limitation is on 18/100 now
  2. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    hi again,
    thank You noorbeast for suggeation.
    indeed, backlash got a little better going from 18 to 10 centimetera, but it still persistent. only way i can get almost rid of it is lowerint motor power to 40 percent, which makes movement not interesting.
    i'm looking into planetary reducer, but could not find much of them used in xsim.

    maybe you guys seen or tried it? how compared to wormgear is ot more stable?

    also would like to ask about simtools settings -
    lets say axis limitation is set to 50percent.
    the movement is rich - rig moves when accelerator is touch'd, but those 50percent is too much for rig when it get to max value (crashing car for instance).
    when set to 30 percent, the acceleration is almost not felt, but max values are safe.

    is it possible to get richer movement with less limitation?



    Thank You!!!

    [​IMG]

    thats backlash

    https://giphy.com/gifs/fRaqyXyDMmgM5iO9Fe
  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Linear actuators are more efficient, with far less backlash, than worm gearboxes and you can build your own: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/diy-linear-actuators.248/

    SimTools mixes motion on the fly and often part of the issue is too aggressive PID and SimTools settings: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/steps-to-create-a-motion-profile.228/

    It would assist troubleshooting if you posted pictures of all of your settings and a video that shows the rig movement and game screen at the same time.

    The other complication you have is mass, once something is moving in a certain direction it takes a lot of power to control it.
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  4. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    No Simtools software filter we help with your mechanical issues. You could try some gas struts (you may need to experiment with different Nm ratings) to help tame the oscillations a little bit, (need to be careful, as gas struts can bring with it other issues for a simulator) but as @noorbeast alluded to, a better quality Gearbox is really needed.
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  5. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Added two 100N gas struts. It helped to reduce backlash time. might play later changing theit position.

    if anyone have link to planetary reducer for ac motor (b14, m8 screws), please, hit me with it.

    thats result with way smoothed pitch.
    i like yaw tho

    https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-26-2018/yuXU6k.gif
  6. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    Does anybody can tell what type of reducers are used here?



    l'm stuck on choosing the right, low backlash, type reducer for ac motor.
    For asking about using planetary reducer with AC motor got an answer that it should be used with servo motor instead.

    Do anybody have knowledge or some links about typea of reducers for this kind of situation?
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  7. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    I tired Dodge 3DoF simulator last year, like yours, they move whole car. Feel really good, but they used 4 powerful Actuator/Motors on four wheels:

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  8. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I guess these are planetary?

  9. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    these are AC motors though. I tried Ford factory 6DoF and 4DoF car simulators with AC servo motored actuators at Chicago auto show last year. No good, though. Lack of all the road vibrations and details. The 3DoF as this one also has heave dof, so the Ride Frequencies are important. You will not get effective ride frequencies above 3 Hz, which I believe that required for a racing car feel with high speed on the track (you might unlikely have this problem with 2Dof seat mover -- no heave). As such, I believe AC motors really suite for fly simulator not racing car sim. To solve this issue, four vibration actuators added to each wheel, respectively, see page 3 and 5 below, up to 20Hz:

    http://www.nads-sc.uiowa.edu/dscna/2001/Papers/Chen_NADS at the University of Iowa....pdf

    or see video at 0:37


    If you really want to move your whole car and feel like a "racing car", I bet the D-Box probably is your best choice if you can cut your cab weight down below 1200 lb. Why do you want move whole car? While you racing, you cannot see front and end. You just need cabinet/cockpit part, can you cut front and back off? Here is guy who just did like this, he used D-Box:
    http://www.isrtv.com/motion-simulator/wil-mayaman-tosados-mind-blowing-porsche-motion-rig/

    Ofc, the D-box is not cheap. Their SW offers vibration module and suspension module allowing you to adjust to feel, which SimTool is lack of.

    Best luck!
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  10. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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  11. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Motion platform
    This time follwed vfd instructions (cables to reduce emi), better reducer placement. Still need to work on better levers. Getting less bouncing by fixing few frame things.
    Many options to set PID and other settings on AMC, VFD, SimTools, so many that sometimes have to reset to factory settings :)

    Both axes need different settings, yaw woking much more than pitch.

    For this video limiting pitch hz to 20.

    Room temperature around 0, somewhy motors acting half their speed at the start, until I give them few spins with full speed (increases bit by bit to actual ratio). Dont think its cold motors (lol), but reducers themself not getting enough work?

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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  12. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Hard to say from just a video, perhaps you could post pictures of all of your settings.
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  13. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Kinda messy things, but working on them.

    This setup is best what I found to experience for now.

    VFD settings -

    Loaded 50.hz preset
    Entered rpm of motor
    Acc/Dcc 0.1s

    AMC1280 -


    Min speed 14
    Motor max speed 80% Ramping 5ms
    Feedback sensor 10% oversample 1


    Motor 1 (pitch-surge)
    P/I/D 30/0/0

    Motor 2 (sway)
    P/I/D 60/0/0




    This is going downhill and shifting to uphill run.

    SimTools -
    axis1a Pitch 100% Surge60% limiting 35%
    axis2a Sway 100% limiting 50%

    Obvious problems -

    Wiring
    Replace testing bearings/lever/reducer to tighter ones, diminish inaccuracies. Those look laughable, but they seem not to have any loosenings.
    Getting rid of EMI for brake pedal, still after plugging ac motors pedal requires like 3 times harder press on it to actually brake at highest sensitivity

    After fixing frame overall to actually see back lashing problem, because before mostly it was bad lever placing to axis.
    If final back lashing won't be any decent, suggested-fastest fix would be cycloidal motor reducer, which is expensive (`~1.6k e) but made for this kinda impacts.

    Both motors after not using them for sometime are half their speed when turned on again. When I start to spin them full circles at 50hz
    it makes funny noises which stops after few minutes. During this motors are experiencing heavier loads until it gets to actual reduction ratio.
    This was present when I got them and run them first time. Can this be problem of them not getting enough work? If not Im thinking of detachable or some kind
    of hall sensor placement to get easy full spins before running.

    Thus far with all problems its really nice experience, adds a little bit of drama to the racing.

    I'll update with more problems fixed.
    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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  14. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Probably a mistake to make quick swap motors in vfd-motor line, but at least could see EMI problem better. Loaded brake pedal with x weight on it and unplugged motor while vfd was still on. The load cell - brake pedal slider went up a little as expexted and requires less weight to get more. Then unplugged vfd and while it was shutting down the brake slider went huge chunk upwards untill vfd compeltely went off. I made kinda decent grounding into chassis, got shielded cables for motor power and vfd, ferrite rings on usb usb cables,but main problem seemed to be vfd emi all along. After doing quick search found that emi filter and ferrite ring and distancing cables should be right things to do. Wondering what emi filter to choose...
    IMG_20191221_222614.jpg IMG_20191223_004528.jpg IMG_20191226_210654.jpg IMG_20191221_235452.jpg IMG_20191224_010150.jpg IMG_20191227_193252.jpg
  15. hannibal

    hannibal Active Member

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    if u can get a monster moto to move a whole car, i would be very amazed!
  16. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, Motion platform
    Installed rfi filters
    IMG_20200115_160117.jpg

    Main motion and emc problem was poor power supply to amc1280. Got this puppy for purest 24v
    1579362438016773835293934562587.jpg
    After installing filters and this got brake signal back. The hugest impact on reducing emc was separating 24v and analog signal cables from amc to vfd. They acted like antena and by moving it away signal was fully back. Motion oscillating decreased dramatically comparwd what it was before. Now changing settings are visible unlike before it was drowning in oscillating.

    Lastly gonna ferrite rings on cables from vfd to motor.


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  17. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    To make things more long lasting thing will need hall sensor replacement. As user Hicks100 suggested SSI contact-less sensors would be way to go. And before this thinking about new reducer axis with friction slip rings which would hold levers with bigger ball joints. Tho should look for those parts if any are localy available.

    Things for now are pretty neat, just few frame noises.

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  18. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Pitch axis - pitch at 80% with -4+4, surge 30% -2+2, heave 20% -0.4+0.4
    Yaw axis - sway at 60%
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  19. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    @sim2go Wow❣❗‼❕❢! That's really cool :cool: I'm impressed!:thumbs Nice work!
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  20. sim2go

    sim2go New Member Gold Contributor

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    Thanks! And thank You guys for giving awesome software which makes things so easy and saves so much time!
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