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Canopy screen rear projection

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by wannabeaflyer, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. CXCSimulations

    CXCSimulations Member

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    Hard to say... It's highly dependent on size, complexity and material. expect to pay more than 1k for it though.

    It's possible to do this. Best material to make molds from for vacuum forming is hard wood.

    The projector I mentioned should also do 3D via the shutter glasses method as well.

    Ebinary is correct as well...one of the big downsides of this method of projection is focusing. It's very difficult to do without expensive optics.


    I am starting to think that a dome is not the best way of doing this. The biggest thing for me is lateral FOV, not vertical. When I am in a race car I look side to side, not up and down. This is especially true with a helmet on.

    I think the best bang for buck idea is to use:

    3 budget projectors
    A custom made, rear projection, blended edge, 3 panel, flat surface screen
    SoftTH
    Immersaview's Sol7

    Then spend a lot of time deciding what size is really necessary for the screens and modifying camera files and FOV in the sim. The results can be stunning. Check out the attached images for a great setup for an open wheel car. Now imagine that with larger screens. Again, the helmet helps a ton. We use them all the time in our simulators. It cuts out all your peripheral vision.

    My 2cents :)

    Attached Files:

  2. Fahim

    Fahim Member

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    the pictures are brilliant. looklike 40inch or 42 screens. realistic looking
  3. Skaut69

    Skaut69 Member

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  4. njracer

    njracer Member

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    hey guys this is what we need. something more to this effect. would be easier to do to. i think it would give an amazing pov of the car and the world and other cars size on track
  5. CXCSimulations

    CXCSimulations Member

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    Now we just need to get the iRacing guys to give us much more camera control in-car. In rFactor it's easy.
  6. Skaut69

    Skaut69 Member

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    One guy or she (phatty2x4) wrote this on Gamespot site. I really like it because his/hers point is very close to my own. I could`t say this better.....

    Conversation is about ATI`s EYEFINITY.


    The point about TripleHead set ups that everyone seems to miss is that the sidescreens are just for adding to the immersion ... you can't look at or focus on all the screens at once unless you are looking at a screenshot.
    Same as in reality ... you can't look at and focus on everything your eyes are seeing at once. Whilst playing a game you are concentrating on the centre screen where the action is ... in front of you ... just like using one screen.
    The sidescreens then add to this giving you some peripheral vision as your eyes have ... and so the distortion isn't noticed so much (if at all) when you are playing. Bars between the screens: You should be too busy playing/concentrating on the centre screen to notice them ...
    Do you notice the edges of the screen when you are playing on one screen ? ... no ... because you are busy concentrating on the game.
    So ... just as when you are using one screen you don't notice the edges of the screens or the bars because you are too busy concentrating /playing the game on the centre screen ... the sidescreens as I have said just add to the emersion giving you some peripheral vision.
    The emersion is stunning ... giving a view that is far far closer to the way your eyes work in reality ... way more than just one screen could ever do. -widescreengamingforum.com
    I wouldn't trade my 3x22 monitors for anything other than 3 projectors.



    http://uk.gamespot.com/hardware/blogs/h ... 3B4&page=1
  7. CXCSimulations

    CXCSimulations Member

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    Oh, I beg to differ on this one. There are several reasons why this is not just an immersion gimmick:

    * As a former racing instructor, one of the first lessons we taught was to look to the apex. Have you noticed racers turn their helmet before they get to the corner? On very tight corners (like a hairpin), this often means looking into the side screens.

    *Situational awareness is very important. If someone is pulling up on the inside of you for a pass, you want to know it. On a long oval, a spin can happen way down the track in a corner, but you will be up on it very fast. Many times, this happens on a side screen on our simulators.

    * In an open wheel car I like to be seeing the front tires for lockup. I do this in real life as well. With our correct FOV and proportions, the front wheel are in the side screens.


    Now this is highly dependent on the type of screen setup you are actually using. The screens on our Motion Pro II simulators are quite large and wrap into your peripheral vision. They are large enough and close enough that it means the the objects and relationships on the screen are close to 1:1 (ie, the cameras are lined up and the real wheel is proportionate to the on screen wheel to the driver). We spend a lot of time working with camera files, FOV and screen settings to make sure of this. This is the type of setup I am proposing here with the projectors.

    On small desktop screens, I can see this as more of a gimmick as the cockpit is so small, it's really just reference.
  8. njracer

    njracer Member

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    Hey Chris check this out, i feel we all could learn a lot from the flight sim community. these guys are way more advanced in their setups and techniques. This is something that should work awesome for curved screen. It's home made but its very nice, and i like the mirror idea as well http://www.a340project.us/gallery10.htm


    Also, I think i found the best way to make the frex canopy screen on the cheap all by ourselves. We buy a 3 or 4 foot beach ball, depending on what size you want the screen, mark off where you want the actual screen proportions on the beach ball to be and put some plaster on it and make a mold.

    Then we buy some clear plastic sheets and make our own vacuum molding machine like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5CGfoxnKaQ

    apply this goo http://www.theaterthings.com/?gclid=CPj ... 5QodNGEHPw

    and we should have a frex style canopy screen

    there are a lot of videos of vacuum molding on youtube so watch a few, the results are very impressive and i plan on using this technique a lot in the future.

    also, i agree with the 3 screens, it add's so much, even my 3 19s are awesome, i could only imagine 3 46s lol.
    plus with the eyefinity we could link up multiple projectors and and have a seamless image completely surrounding our peripheral vision, built a little car around it and add screen's you'll have a windshield and the side window's perfect. that be sweet and on par with the flight sim guys :D
  9. adgun

    adgun Active Member

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    Hi NJRACER
    Iám not convinced it will work
    Every time you put plaster on the ball ,you put wight on it and ball will deform.
    regards AD
  10. njracer

    njracer Member

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    hey adgun, what do you think we could use instead of the beachball to give us that dome we need??

    what about the vacuum molding, you think that's a good solution granted we have an oven/heater big enough to melt a piece of plastic the size we need??
  11. mrpio

    mrpio New Member

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    FYI (For Your Inspiration), there are some videos and photos of a bent screen I use with a single projector, at http://www.eventor.pl/motoimprezy.html . What that is is a piece of PC which stretches a piece of inexpensive rear projection foil.

    Not that I would recommend such a setup for serious simracing. It does give you a great sense of speed and a nice, realistic image size, but the warping is too much for any serious apex hunting.

    It could use a little bend on the top, say, with a radius equal to the distance between the eyes and the screen, but that is quite a tall order. The way it is, it looks great and feels great. And the lost focus on the sides is no biggie - it is peripheral vision after all, and the elongation only improves the speed sensation.

    I would certainly go for 3 projectors and a bigger screen, but this is one is born from a compromise between portability/space requirements and visual effect.

    It is rather simple, but if anyone could use a sketchup drawing of the frame, I can post it.

    Cheers,

    Piotr
  12. Skaut69

    Skaut69 Member

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    Two extra screens on the side will definitely give you greatest sense of speed because of additional point of focus. This additional part of ground is in the different type of move - it is side move compare to that oncoming from the front screen. The best improvement in this and other cases will come with highly advanced 3D Systems. All new Full HD 3D Ready screens and especially projectors will give as this unique experience. Hopefully this will come with higher resolution to use it will PC and then we will be able to get wide picture like 3 screen set up. It is actually quite important - when you think about that catching wright point on every corner or sense of speed (objects are moving with all that depth).
  13. njracer

    njracer Member

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    with the new atieyefinity they were running 8000x8000 resolution so we should have no problems running 3 screens, projectors or whatever at any res we want.
  14. adgun

    adgun Active Member

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    Hi NJRACER
    To get the mold in right sheape.
    Radius is the only thing you need.
    Take a nail and some stow,and make it on wished radius.
    Hang it above a big peace of foam,and start scratching foam out.
    When there is no foam left to scratch out ,youre ready
    It's a pre Crist method.
    But youre getting 2 problems
    1 material needs to withstand heat from heated plastic.
    2 where talking rear projection ,it means the screen must be purfect on 2 sides
    All thiny inperfections will be visseble.
    Because of this only pollished steel is able to do it from.
    Because of this i sugested blown molding a fuw days ago.
    Regards AD
  15. Skaut69

    Skaut69 Member

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    njracer wrote: with the new ati eyefinity they were running 8000x8000 resolution so we should have no problems running 3 screens, projectors or whatever at any res we want.

    If you meant about my suggestion to use a projector - than i need to correct something. I am going to use a projector with 3D support and my hope is to get higher resolution on it, higher than it is right now on most of them. Panasonic is going to give as Full HD projector in next year with 3D Ready (on stutter glasses). That mean it will be 1920x1080 for the movies and maybe far far more for PC connection. In that case i will be able to get resolution which is normally given by 3 screen set up. 3D picture and wide field of view from only one powerful projector ! To be honest - i will be satisfy with resolution if they will only double it.

    Actually not only higher horizontal resolution will give you wider field of view. Panasonic in his last version of Full HD projector (PT-AE3000) add some great feature - which is Pseudo anamorphic lens and that is giving you 2.35:1 aspect ratio screen. You can find it on every movie review about this projector. Size of that screen (horizon) is pretty impressive and if you can use it with bended screen than immersion in guaranteed.

    Basically i am not going to get more details to see on the screen on front of me. That what i need is popper size of the objects around me. I do not really see as much as that field of view (from 3, 6 or 24 screens) will give me but i definitely need to see right size of car, human and that will be given me by huge picture from projector, oval screen and especially 3D glasses. Which means Panasonic in next year.

    One more time consider this: Correct size of the objects or extra view which you do not really see or care ??
  16. Skaut69

    Skaut69 Member

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    I already know that all 3D Projectors will not have higher resolution. I mean there is no chance for even Full HD resolution. Projectors are very restricted in this case. Maybe in 2011. Since then there is Eyefinity, TripleHead2Go and something else. When you use one of above techniques picture will be split by frame. Looks like only solution is to get higher resolution to get more field of view in game without frames between - nothing new but no company who did that since now. Check on Samsung with ULTRA HIGH DEFINITION (3840x2160p).

    Video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF5wosF6BjY

    More details:
    http://techvideoblog.com/cebit/samsung- ... d-screens/
  17. Skaut69

    Skaut69 Member

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    Probably everybody who is thinking about larger field of view might say that they need three screens next to each other to get as wide as they can and this Samsung is giving you just two. Matrix of course is two horizontally but thy are in Full HD and also two extra vertically which in my opinion is giving you great field of view and superb immersion in games environment. Did i mentioned about standard 3D Ready ! You are going to have immersion like never before. Some details to compare with others achievements: 82 inch UltraHD 3840x2160 screen will be around 185cm x 120cm (73 x 48).
  18. adgun

    adgun Active Member

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    Hi
    It's looking great,but probbely you can buy a fd301 for it.
    Phillips sells a hd lcd 21/9 tv a fuw moths now,for less than 4000,00 euro
    And Sony is comming with oled tv's (o means organic)
    I have seen one in a store(10000,00euro 17inch screen)It's incredible no picsels
    regards Ad
  19. Skaut69

    Skaut69 Member

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    Yes, there are others solution for wide view but no one will give you at the moment 82 inch of screen with this resolution. On this size you are pretty close to match natural size of subjects. All experience are fade by not keeping this as a prime point. There is no greater experience at the moment than 3D and Big Screen which will give you proper size of objects.
  20. Skaut69

    Skaut69 Member

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    I really believe that price at the beginning will be high because there is nothing at the moment with Ultra HD (definitely not even close to Force Dynamic price politics). All 3D HD Ready solutions will be overpraised in next year but that will change faster than it was with standard LCD. Thats because of Laser technology and all Hologram Projection. Many companies are developing this at their laboratories. Thats why they wanna bite some from last days of flat TV panels.