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Question Boundary Filter vs Axis % Settings

Discussion in 'SimTools DIY Version' started by Michael Jeffries, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    I was told that to help against spikes in telemetry from crashes happening, you can add a Boundary filter in, but some people in our discord are confused about Axis % setting or limiting, and adding a Boundary Filter in.

    What exactly does the boundary filter do and how is it counted? If I set Boundary to 5, does that mean if the spike is 100% movement, the boundary filter just stops it at 95% axis movement? If that's the case, isn't that the same thing as limiting the axis to 95% as well?

    Any help in understanding this would be much appreciated
  2. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Setting a boundary at a given % means the Dof will not use more than that % of the total available range of that axis.

    But the boundary setting can not be viewed in isolation, as Axis Assignment also comes into play. For example settings a boundary of 10% for say heave, but still assigning 100% for heave in Axis Assignment, will make heave very sensitive.
  3. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    So confusing by I'm somewhat understanding it.
  4. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Think of the example I gave this way, using boundary and Axis Assignment like that would give very fine road detail in heave, but prevent wild heave movement in a crash, as that crash spike would exceed the set boundary limit.
  5. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    For Heave I have 30% across all the axis assignments under heave... So I'll try with 5% and see if that helps lessen the impacts.
  6. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    Is it mainly Heave or is it also Surge and sway as well? If not, I'll just leave a boundary under the heave assignments and check it out.
  7. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    I did a test where I put all axis on 100% (total 500%) and added the boundary filter instead. Boundary distributed as the prior axis settings so the total is 100%.
    Added some small smoothing 4 and full 100% on intensity.
    Doing some Dirt Rally (experimental RPM plug-in) with the Subaru.

    This makes it detailed and aggressive but more on/off feeling. In some ways it is much better than the old setup as much more details and more fast reactions and no more violent crash movements.
    Also the RPM tactile vibration that id in the experimental plug-in goes thru much better even when driving, not drowning in other movements.

    I know this is NOT the correct way of tuning.

    What is happening when I do this?
    I have also been struggling with getting the filters right to get max details and smooth movements minus crash impact.

    How come some run with boundary as low as 4%? My almost stops moving then, as it should.

    Alot of users including me are not getting how this works. Alot of trial and error is done. It would be very good if there was some good documentation about the filters and axis settings with diagrams/graphs showing what is done.

    Sorry for the long post but I feel this is a very important in tuning but with very little information.

    Thanks
  8. DoubleM

    DoubleM Member Gold Contributor

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    The on and off feeling is because of the 100% axis. You reach the boundary too fast and too often. Try lowering the axis.
  9. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    The fact that I put Boundary at 4 (now i lowered it to 3), is that the correct way to do it? I wanted to limit the spikes during crashes, while keeping all the details for the rest of the axis movement, and thats what another user told me to do. But someone else is telling me to try boundary 95 or so, because it's counting it from the bottom of the axis, and not from the end.
  10. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    I get why the on/off feeling and it was just a test and it went surprisingly well.

    If we look at for example TL, what should I set boundary to? Axis is set to 100% and I want TL to use all the actuator distance? TL is rough in crashes.
  11. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    Have been doing some boundary test with my TL and Dirt Rally to remove the very aggressive crashes. Axis is 100% as it should.

    As soon as I am starting to set the boundary it limits the actuator movement, the resultat is less TL. I need to go really high om boundary to get the disired movement but then its not limiting any crash movements.
    This moment 22 is really noticeable on a movement as TL but I feel the same on other to.

    Any thoughts about this?
  12. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    Well i went with what you said before and checked in iRacing and the boundary number is a percentage of the total axis assignment you have. So if you have 100% set on the TL DOF on that axis/actuator, 100% boundary should be the same feeling as leaving boundary Off. If you start dropping boundary to lets say 90%, it should cut off the telemetry that you get at the top 10%. (Assuming you left the axis assignment at 100%)
  13. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    Michael, I ageee what you write but can you see how this would limit crash movement?
  14. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    Yes of course it would limit what happens during severe spikes like during a crash. If you have 100% on the DOF assignment and you put 80% boundary, you're supposed to get all of the telemetry movements in the actuators between 1% and 80% telemetry. Anything that spikes above 80% is just cut off and the actuator doesnt allow it. So you're still getting the finer details without the massive spikes at the top end.

    (Previously I believe the number under Boundary is a percentage of what's being taken off the axis, but i was incorrect there, since i switched from 4 boundary to 80, and the actuators move alot more)
  15. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    For TL in a rally game for example where the car goes sideways from side to side you want the full TL movement.
    You dont want to limit the TL you want it all as its a natural movement.
    This is why I cant set the boundary to low and going below 80-90 makes TL to small and that setting still makes crashes horrible sometimes.
  16. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    Try Boundary 50 on every axis you have TL DOF set to. Then try Boundary at 10.
    Check the difference. I found a middle ground of where it still feels im getting enough movement and not limited too much, but again, I havent tried in Dirt Rally yet, but technically it should be the same thing for any profile.
  17. Hocky

    Hocky Member Gold Contributor

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    Cant go as low as 50 it makes to little movement, more like 80-90 but then it isnt enough for crash limiting.
    You see when going into rally, you want alot of movement there :)
  18. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    I know. I had similar experience with iRacing... You have to play with the boundary to get as much as possible and have it cut off at a percentage where you feel comfortable. Try Boundary 85, then try boundary 90. Just shut off Game Manager to make the changes, and then go back in.

    Also, are you racing in Dirt Rally 2.0 in VR? If so, are you having it cut out from being connected after a stage finishes? Or are you running on a monitor?
    Some people report having cut-outs in the motion rig between stages/races
  19. Sebj

    Sebj Active Member

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    Also the fault could be in PID values. If too high on proportional then you'll get hard hits, better to lower the value to soften impacts overall without compromising speed of motion and add a bit of integral to add extra duty cycle strength in the front end. This changed my whole setup.
    I.e. P was 0.5 went to 0.28 and Integral at 0.014
  20. Michael Jeffries

    Michael Jeffries Member Gold Contributor

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    Sorry but I'm fairly new to SimTools where do you put those values? In the tuning center or under Axis Assignments?