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Andreas Ewe

Aerofly FS 2 Plugin 2.1.1.0

SimTools plugin for Aerofly FS 2

  1. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    Do the initial profile development on a screen, then do the final VR refinement once the initial profile is well sorted.
  2. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    OK, now I've taken all the confusion out of the equation I'm starting to get a handle on the way SimTools maps game data to seat movement... I think. This is what I think is happening. Do I have this right? The 55, 75% and 50% are all example values.

    simtools-example.jpg
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  3. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    You're absolutely right. It's the only way - although I think it might be intersting to try OVRdrop to make the virtual axis an in-game overlay on the HMD. My setup with monitors isn't ideal for 2D but I found a way of doing something good enough.

    I'm finally having some fun with my platform, especially after moving the sensor off rig.

    Do you have any tips wrt Yaw? I've tried Extra3 with 100% smoothing, but still get too much kick back when I stop turning. 100% washout return doesn't seem to help. I'll try yaw with washout next, but don't have much hope for that as absolute heading can't be much use on a 3dof.
  4. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    Is anyone having any luck with washout return on FS2? I've tried it on absolute DOFs like Pitch and acceleration DOFs like roll/sec and just can't get it to do anything. I've tried values from 5 to 100, nothing. Just now I did a very simply test, pointed the plane up, set the autopilot to hold the climb and waited for washout return to ease the axes back to neutral. Nothing happened.

    Maybe I need to use it in conjunction with other settings? This is what I have for filters - I'd set Pitch to 75% of the DOF.

    Any help appreciated even if someone just replicates my experience.

    washout_return.JPG
  5. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    @Phil Hulme
    You need a Gain of at least 1 to turn it on buddy.
    yobuddy
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    I see. I thought gain was kind of the opposite of return, i.e. How quickly it would let you move towards a new value, as opposed to decay away from a final value. Is there documentation on the relationship between the two values?
  7. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    OK, I'm almost there.

    100% Washout return = fast return to neutral
    1% Washout return = veeery slow return to neutral

    ...but I can't quite workout what the Washout gain is doing. I used output testing to give me two almost identical configs apart from washout gain settings: Both Heave and Pitch were mapped to the same behaviour of 100% platform tilt, with 50% washout return, and one of them on 1% gain the other on 99% gain. I quickly drag the DOFs in turn to 50% and watch the decay, but just couldn't quite work out what the gain was doing.

    Can someone else try this for me? @vrxsim @MarkusB ? Its complicated for me as my DOFReality V3 platform has something odd in the virtual to physical axis mapping.
  8. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    Washout Gain/Return

    UPDATE: This is wrong. See later post

    OK, I think I finally have a handle on configuring washout gain and return and how to use them. Searching this forum I find very little on it which makes me wonder if many people use this functionality. It seems to me though that it is very valuable and a much better solution than smoothing alone for many situations.

    Washout return is the more intuitive one. I primarily want to use it for yaw to map yaw degrees/sec to my traction loss axis. Once the aircraft has rotated though, I don't want to return to neutral at the same speed, so smoothing is not adequate. Washout can be set from 0 to 100, with zero being no return and 100 being fast return to neutral. With yaw I am testing values of around 20. The only thing to be careful of is that unless you have a setting for washout gain, the return does nothing.

    The role of washout gain is to set how much washout (I think of it as a resistive force against the primary force) to apply whilst the main force is taking effect, not after it is completed. A very small value means that no washout happens during the application of the DOF and a large value means that the washout applies quite strongly during the initial DOF force. The net effect of a fairly strong washout gain and a fairly strong washout return is a smoother overall build up and return to neutral. With a small washout gain, there's a slight delay before the force completes taking effect and then the return to neutral applies.

    For flight simulation i see washout being useful for banking as well, which is best done with the angle speed DOF. If I roll to the right I want the roll effect to apply quickly, but once I establish and hold a bank angle I do not want my platform to return to neutral just as quickly, especially if it was a quick roll. I am testing out washout return values around 20 - still experimenting with what is best for washout gain
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    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  9. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    Best Yaw?
    Even though I have washout working okay now I'm just not sure if Extra3 is the best DOF to use for yaw when mapped to traction loss. Its not awful in the air, but very unsatisfying, out-of-sync and jerky when on a runway compensating for prop force.

    Acceleration of roll works quite well with mapping to platform roll, but acceleration of yaw is a different kind of force and felt experience. I think I really want plain unaccelerated yaw, with some way of dealing with 180/360 wrap around which washout won't solve, and a kind of zero start.

    What experience do others have?
  10. mjgutie2

    mjgutie2 New Member

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    Hello, I tried to use the 2.0.4.0 plugin but when our plane is leveled, our flight simulator roll is offset by -90 degrees.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I read through the whole discussion and saw that others had the same problem. I tried to capture a new min/max but that didn't seem to change anything (maybe I did it incorrectly?)

    steps taken for new min/ max capture:
    1. start leveled on ground of game
    2. change roll option from green to grey
    3. pressed capture max min
    4. pressed reset
    5. flew around normally to achieve full range. including takeoff and landing
    6. pressed save new settings
    7. pressed stop capture
    8. change roll option from grey to green

    I am still a beginner when it comes to simtools and any help is appreciated.

    Thank You
  11. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    That one threw me for a while. Roll is basically non functional. Use Extra 2 instead, roll acceleration. Faster roll gives more axis movement, and if you stop rolling it levels which isn't as unrealistic as it sounds as gforce would press you into the seat on a turn anyway.
    • Informative Informative x 2
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  12. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    Washout Gain/Return (Updated and Corrected)

    After many hours and some extra help from @yobuddy I now have a much better handle on washout gain/return and my flying feels a lot better. I really think its essential to use this properly with flight sim to get a good feeling. The problem is if you don't know quite what both gain & return do then pure experimentation can give very confusing results.

    I'm mainly using this for banking mapped to the Extra2 roll/sec DOF. What I was after was a fairly responsive roll without being snatchy which would imperceptibly return to neutral once I had completed applying the roll, so that I feel the force of the roll taking effect but not the return axis movement. I'm also using it for yaw mapped to Extra3 yaw/sec. This is my current setting, though I may tweak it more now I know what's going on.

    These are my main DOF mappings.
    fs2-axes.JPG

    I'm finding 100% fine as I'm flying cessna's rather than fast jets, so no extreme combined DOFs.

    This is the Extra2 setting.
    roll-dof.JPG

    Smoothing: I want it very smooth so 100%
    Washout Gain: This determines how responsive SimTools is to the DOF input. 100% means very responsive. 1% means very unresponsive, which means changes to this DOF would have a very diluted impact. 0% means all washout functionality disabled. I'm not sure if 100% is what you get if washout is disabled, but I found 100% too snatchy for flying, in fact it seemed to undermine all that 100% smoothness. Settings around 75% seem to give the smooth responsiveness I was after when applying the roll.

    Washout Return: This is all about the subtle return to neutral. Without it if I, for example, start banking to the right then hold the bank angle at 20 degrees what I feel is a strong banking force followed by an often stronger returning force once I reach 20 degrees. Very unnatural. Now once I reach 20 degrees and my roll acceleration returns to 0, the axis returns gently to neutral. It can feel a little gritty but I think I'm now hitting the limits of the motors & gearing and their ability to make smooth fine adjustments. When I do axis output testing with my platform I find I can move +/- 5 and not feel any shift, then a tiny jump. It would be great if that was a software/arduino/simtools thing that could be tweaked rather than a mechanical thing. If anyone knows how I can get more detailed feedback data on motor positions I'd be grateful to hear about it.
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  13. yobuddy

    yobuddy Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    @Spit40,
    I think your using to much smoothing to get fine detail buddy.
    Cut smoothing it in half and check the output testing again to see if its better.
    yobuddy
    • Informative Informative x 2
  14. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    Good tip. Many thanks.
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  15. Bubba Gump

    Bubba Gump New Member Gold Contributor

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    How do you get to your filter settings? I see from your screenshot that there is a filter access control next to your Force %. That control is missing from my screen, and has been for some time (I don't remember updating)

    Attached Files:

  16. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

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    Click on the button under 'Flt' for each DOF/Force, which will bring up the other control. Note: the button will turn to orange if a filter has been activated and saved. :)
  17. Bubba Gump

    Bubba Gump New Member Gold Contributor

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    I don't have an Flt button (see my screenshot above). I know it was there at some point, but it has disappeared.
  18. MarkusB

    MarkusB Active Member Gold Contributor

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    Maybe you have accidentally switched to basic mode. Filters are only available in standard mode.
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  19. Spit40

    Spit40 VR Flyer

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    Definitely the issue. I had no FLT at first when i set up my platform. If no one beats me to it i'll send a screenshot later of where this is changed.
  20. MarkusB

    MarkusB Active Member Gold Contributor

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