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A few questions before I start my build

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Building Q&A / FAQ' started by getti, Feb 27, 2015.

  1. getti

    getti Currently building my first 2dof seat mover...

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    This is my first post, I'd like to say hello and thank you in advance to all the dedicated members of this community. I've been reading on this forum for a long time and now I think I'm getting close to being ready to start a build of my own. However, of course I have many questions and I figured I would put them out there from now before I get going.

    I understand the basic mechanics behind these motion simulators and I think I understand basically what parts are needed to build one of these. I've done my fair share of welding and working with metal so I'm not worried about that part of this. My questions today are about controllers / power supplies. I think some of the confusion is just terminology, some components sound like greek to me.

    I have already decided that I am going to build a shoulder mount 2dof seat mover. I currently have a static rig with Logitech G27 triple monitors so this seems like the natural progression.

    20150216_011443.jpg

    Okay enough preface here are my questions:

    Motors:
    My motors will prob be these:
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/GEAR-MOTOR-1...384?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51bd392f00
    Is this good or should I go for the motion dynamics?

    Power:
    I see that people are using computer server power suplies from ebay that need to be modified. Not sure why these need to be modified, need some clafification on this. Also, which power supplies will work (model number?). What are other simple power supply options? How about a regular PC power supply?

    JRK / Arduino:
    I've read a few things on the jrk's and I found the link to where to buy them on Pololu.com. Does anyone have info on the Arduino, which ones are needed and where to buy them etc.? Link?...

    Potentiometer:
    I know I need these, but what kind and where do I get them?

    That's all for now, I'm sure I'll have a million more questions soon. Thanks
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Those motors will be fine for a shoulder mount if you are geographically located in the USA or Canada. You can also get them in 50:1 if you want to: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GEAR-MOTOR-...483?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51bed470a3

    You can find @Slider's HP server PSU tutorial here, it is really easy to do: http://www.xsimulator.net/community/threads/how-to-modify-a-server-power-supply-for-12v.5774/

    Do an Ebay search for the PSUs, there are plenty of them and they are really cheap, the link is in the tutorial for the model.

    Again you can find Arduino Uno R3 on Ebay but many electrical hardware stores carry them as well. For a good overview I would suggesting reading the setup tutorials for the JRKs by @bsft and Arduino by @Pit.

    If you go the Arduino rout you will also have to get a Monster Moto.

    There are different views about pots but I use 360 degree Hall effect sensors, like these: http://au.element14.com/bi-technolo...-5/sensor-hall-0-2v-20v-to-10v-pin/dp/2319662

    Keep the questions coming until you are clear about what path you are taking, what you need to buy for it and how it all goes together.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  4. Daguru

    Daguru Rally drivers do it in the mud

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    Hi @getti
    welcome and good luck!
    That's a nice compact static rig u have there :thumbs
  5. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    FYI shoulder mount seat mover will only require 180deg pots, NOT 360

    For power supplies, Either Dps-600pb's or Dell Poweredge 2950's. Pin outs are availible for both PSU's.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. getti

    getti Currently building my first 2dof seat mover...

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    Thanks for the replies!

    If I go with the Arduino & Monster Moto do I just need 1 of each board to run 2 motors or 2 of each?
    Are these the right thing:
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/High-Quality...472?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23442b1500

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Dual-VNH2SP3...584?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item485bfc7368

    Also same question for JRK's how many do I need to run 2 motors?

    Also I found some power supplies, how do these look?

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LOT-OF-2-321...275?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41901fe3cb

    Still wanting to know if a regular PC power supply will do the job? Or maybe one of these:
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AC-110V-220V...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item3ce0dc6e37

    Getting excited now.... Thanks!
  7. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    To use Ard you only need one Ardr3 and Monster Moto, which will run 2x motors
    To use Jrk you will need one per motor
    There is a difference but the Ard is a cheap alternative to wet your feet with and proven to be alright.
    Power supplies, I use 12v deep cycle battery for cost.
  8. getti

    getti Currently building my first 2dof seat mover...

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    Is that a car battery? Will car batteries work?
  9. GIB SimRacing

    GIB SimRacing Active Member

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    Hi @getti ,first up good luck with your build.

    A car battery should work. Just keep in mind that you will need a charger to keep the battery topped up. @eaorobbie please correct me if I'm wrong.
    As for a standard PC power supply, If you have 2 decent supplies you should be fine. Something along the lines of 45A on the 12V rail. To be honest, I think the HP server power supplies you found http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LOT-OF-2-321...275?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41901fe3cb are a good way to go.
    These are nice and compact and have the power to need.
  10. vthinsel

    vthinsel Well-Known Member

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    Hi ! I'm roughly in the same situation as you, and I have started the electronic part with arduino, sabertooth, and 24V wipers engine.
    I have finished building the power unit by using 2 DELL PSU in serial. To avoid issues, one of them needs to have the earth removed. You can check my post here
    Getting 24V from 2 PSU is something casual for modelists willing to charge many LiPo battery packs at once.
  11. bsft

    bsft

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    Id suggest JRKS hands down for overall performance. You may pay more, but instead of trying to save $50 or more on control boards and then splash out 3-4 times that much on a peripheral for your sim, buy JRKS and get the performance.
    Simple to setup, no code to write and they will run 12-14v at 30 amps continuous all day with 45 amp spikes no problem. Use heatsink on the big chip and fan cooling.
    One board per motor.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. getti

    getti Currently building my first 2dof seat mover...

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    Regarding the power supply I'm just looking for the easiest solution, don't really want to have to do much modifications etc. If there is a reason why these are better than the other ones I asked about then let
    You make a compelling case for these JRKs, I'm sold.
    Moving on to the motors, my question is this:
    Should I get the 25:1 or 50:1? If the 50:1's are more powerful why does anyone bother with 25:1?
  13. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Gearbox choice is about speed Vs torque, with your rig design being the determining factor. You also have to consider lever length, most go for something between 40mm CTC to 80mm CTC.

    25:1 are fast and perfect for a shoulder mount with an average weight user. 50:1 is better if it is a 'Big Bloke sim©' ;)

    I started with 25:1 but mine are now 60:1 because of the design parameters.
  14. getti

    getti Currently building my first 2dof seat mover...

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    Ok so seeing as I'm building a shoulder mount seat mover and I'm built like flag pole,,, :thumbs lol..... 25:1 it is.
    Are the motion dynamics motors better than these ebay ones I posted at the start of this thread? I'm not in a huge rush to get them I can wait for shipping if they are better.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. GIB SimRacing

    GIB SimRacing Active Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    The motion dynamics motors are 200W compared to the 180W of the ebay motors. So the MD's should be slightly more powerful. But you probably already knew that...:)
    Maybe some of the members here have had experience with both those motors and could advise on build quality?
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I have the motion dynamic motors and am located in Australia, so the shipping cost is reasonable. Where are you located in the world @getti?

    I can't do a side by side test but very much doubt there is enough of a performance difference to justify international shipping for the motion dynamics motors, when there are alternatives, but of course that is a choice for individual builders. If you are in Canada or the US I suggest you go with CrabPot motors on Ebay.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. prodigy

    prodigy Burning revs

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    Have you changed only gearboxes or bought new pair of motors?
  18. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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  19. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    @noorbeast - I had the same issue with the Sim not holding me in between game loads.
    (Game would exit, send a clear to the JRK, Sim would drop to neutral, next game would load and snap the motors back to centre - annoying!)

    I fixed this by changing the shutdown command in the JRK to be blank.
    The JRK will just sit at centre and then not move after you exit a game.

    However, my sim being foot mount might also help. Hardly any weight at the "mount" point really.
    having said that, under power, I can't move my 25:1's by hand at all.
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    Just clarifying @Archie, when you say you can't move 25:1's by hand at all do you mean when they are powered? Unpowered you should be able to move them, whereas the 60:1 you can't.

    My issue was different, with my compact design the 25:1 can't hold the weight of the Clubsport gear with the leverage it had when nobody was in the sim to balance it out. Too short a leverage for the weight.
  21. Archie

    Archie Eternal tinkerer

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    Yeah - Under power.

    Ok - I understand now mate. No worries. :)