1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

6 DOF from scratch

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Pierre Lalancette, Dec 18, 2016.

  1. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,834Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,865 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Don't want to polute this thread too much, but yes, not that long ago the standard advice from the experts was big AC motors for a 6DOF as small DC motors just would not cut it - only good for 'Seat Shakers':rolleyes:. As I live in a old house with single phase power (total 100amps) without some major expense - running 6 x big AC motors was never going to happen so I started investigating a small 6DOF DC option without compromising performance. I started building some actuator prototypes back in late 2014 with @SilentChill beating me to the punch in building a working 6DOF latter in the middle of 2015 (yes I know there was some experiments done before all that - but their performance was lacking). I did not get my 6DOF operational until Dec that same year. So a bit of history behind all this and why building a 6DOF is no mean feat for any DIYer. Hopefully you can take away some knowledge from all that and have an easier time in building your sim :).
    • Informative Informative x 2
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  2. OZHEAT

    OZHEAT Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Messages:
    212
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    2,389Coins
    Ratings:
    +102 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor
    @SeatTime
    First up, sorry.
    l thought you was saying you were spinning the actuator at 5000rpm unloaded.
    I feeI I was led down the garden path by silentchill's comment as what I said has nothing to do with a bare motor's no load speed.

    I suggested to limit speed from the safety point of view.
    Not everyone has the skill to craft a sturdy, precise actuator like you guys.
  3. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Occupation:
    3D teacher
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    6,648Coins
    Ratings:
    +791 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    @SeatTime , I don't mind the pollution. I really like that you take the time to share your knowledge on how to build a simulator. I'll need it.
    @OZHEAT , I don't mind the warning, restriction call and all. It gives me awareness on things that could break or even be dangerous.
    Like, don't grind without safety glasses, or you could end up with metal in your eyes.
    Or, don't stand on a poor wielded rig, filming yourself, as it may break under your weight.
    You know, that kind of stuff. :)

    Like, I just found out that carbon fibre conduct electricity. With all the power needed to run a sim, it is a useful thing to know.

    And I just found out that Canada is the worst place to find carbon tubing. I don't know. I must be dumb or something, because I can't find the right tubing size (and the damn inches to cm conversion is driving me wild).
    The closest thing I could find to imulate @SeatTime actuator: Main shaft: - 25mm/22mm Carbon Fibre tube

    (Damn! Even the link don't work: it is a 23-25mm carbon tube...)

    1 mm less tick. And I am not even talking about 10 mm tube 500 mm that I just could not find for the structure.
    So, if anyone as a good dealer with international delivery system, please, say so.

    And lastly, I am starting to look for ball bearing. And as my new rule. I always post what I am about to buy so people can tell me: "NO! DON'T DO THAT!"
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Antibac...599218?hash=item48940e20f2:g:JcsAAOSwmLlYBGdF
    I could even get a 5% off if I order more than 3.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  4. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,834Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,865 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    It's cool, just didn't want members to think that there was something really dangerous going on. Still certainly plenty of risks involved with anything that has the power to throw around a person :). So any design should include a review of risk and their removal/mitigation. It's what makes it so hard to commercialize something like this - you can really open yourself up to potential litigation if a member of the public gets hurt:rolleyes:.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,834Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,865 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I would really still advise that you build something simpler at first, as it will reduce the risks and in the long run save you money, time and hair :). Irrespective of what help we can offer on-line - there is allot you can get wrong with something as involved as building a 6DOF, especially when you are also build 6 x actuators as well. Even if you do purchase all the right equipment the risk of breaking or mis-aligning something is high, with expensive consequences in time/money. Even Myself @SilentChill , @wannabeaflyer2 and others with long commercial backgrounds in aligned industries, still had to make many design changes as we went along. The Ballscrew you have linked looks fine and very similar to what I used, but I just wanted to make the 'baby steps' comment - in the end your decision.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Mmcool

    Mmcool Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    USA
    Balance:
    1,118Coins
    Ratings:
    +19 / 7 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
  7. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,834Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,865 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    The design can be easily modified to suit any of those motors.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Occupation:
    3D teacher
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    6,648Coins
    Ratings:
    +791 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    I think you'll have better chance to get a more complete answer in the MOTOR ACTUATOR AND DRIVERS section of the forum. I sure can't help you more. Sorry.
  9. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Occupation:
    3D teacher
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    6,648Coins
    Ratings:
    +791 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    Does this count? Sorry about the bad focus, it doesn't help you to appreciate my incredible driving with the mouse and the keyboard.

    • Like Like x 1
  10. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,599
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,834Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,865 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Looks cool :), but what are they :think - hard to tell from the video?
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  11. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Occupation:
    3D teacher
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    6,648Coins
    Ratings:
    +791 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    I made a second mini linear actuator as this one below and I made a mini 2 dof (roll and pitch) plugged on LFS.
    6 DOF from scratch
    I'll try to make a better video next weekend.

    Also, my 6 linear actuator are shipped from china. Expected to arrive in 2 months. :S
  12. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    393Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    heya, ive used these guys quite a bit, shipping from the UK to Western Australia hasnt been too bad and theyre very well packaged
    i havent bought any of their tube before, but the rest of the products i have purchased from there have been very high quality
    http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/cured-carbon-fibre-products/carbon-fibre-tube
    22-25mm tube here http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/...re-tube/glossy-3k-woven-finish-25mm-22mm.html

    (i believe seattime laminates two tubes together for increased thickness and strength)

    • Informative Informative x 2
  13. OZHEAT

    OZHEAT Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Messages:
    212
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    2,389Coins
    Ratings:
    +102 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor
    @Pierre Lalancette
    I scored some lengths of 28x25 carbon fibre tubes from a neighbour who was a competitive kayaker .
    They use the tubes for the paddles, it isn't the tubes that breaks but the blades do.
    DSC_0370[1].JPG
    I believe that they mainly use "roll wrapped" cf tubes rather than "woven wrapped" cf tubes because of the strength.
    DSC_0371[1].JPG

    Maybe you can get the tubes locally at a sports/kayak store or even from kayaker.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. paulg100

    paulg100 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2014
    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Bristol UK
    Balance:
    1,330Coins
    Ratings:
    +90 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    AC motor, 6DOF
    What is stopping you guys from using alibaba/aliexpress? is shipping prohibitively expesnive to your country or something?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Occupation:
    3D teacher
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    6,648Coins
    Ratings:
    +791 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    Nothing. I can order from it and it looks fine. I just didn't know the site. Now I do. That's exactly the reason I asked.

    Thanks @delcarlo, I'll keep it in mind if everything else fails, cause, they look expensive, good but expensive. But, never rule out an option. You never know when you'll need it.
    Edit: After some better comparisons, they are not that expensive after all. mmm...

    I like you're idea @OZHEAT. I'll be on the hunt for those. They could be a nice way to start.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  16. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Occupation:
    3D teacher
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    6,648Coins
    Ratings:
    +791 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    I tried to refine my mini actuator design, with no real success. So, no video.
    I ordered my carbon tubing. Thanks all for the info.

    Now, I found out that I will need some rails to guide the linear bearing, and once again, it is something that I have no knowledge about.

    So, I would like to know what you guys use. Any suggestion?
  17. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    393Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    aliexpress has heaps of diy cnc stuff like linear bearings and rails.. great website, just the shipping can be slow (about 4 weeks to australia) you can pay extra for shipping but that gets expensive

  18. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Occupation:
    3D teacher
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    6,648Coins
    Ratings:
    +791 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    Ok, I have a good Idea of what I need, but I miss one information about the rail width.
    Should it be 7mm, 9mm, 12mm, 15mm? Is there a min size for a linear actuator? Is it a big factor, or should I not worry too much about it?
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. delcarlo

    delcarlo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Australia
    Balance:
    393Coins
    Ratings:
    +36 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor
    i cant help you with that sorry.. i havent built any actuators, just know where to source the stuff from my research into DIY CNC.. someone else here will know better.. else have a good read of other threads on the topic and make an educated guess. then build it and test it.. make adjustments and go again

  20. Pierre Lalancette

    Pierre Lalancette Sir Lalancelot Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Occupation:
    3D teacher
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Balance:
    6,648Coins
    Ratings:
    +791 / 6 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    People don't say much about their linear guide rails. I'll bother someone until I get a answer. :)

    Until then, doing some work for my design.

    ballscrew.jpg