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3DOF Motion Base Help Required

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by futuresims, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. futuresims

    futuresims New Member

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    Hi, can the X-simulator members help me with my project?

    I have made a very rough sketch of a 3DOF Motion Base.
    Two Linear Actuators in the back and one in the front.
    3 DOF Motion Base.jpg
    I made this sketch based on the Force Dynamics Simulator Principle.

    Can the X-Simulators members suggest High Performance Linear Actuators with High Performance Servo Motors for me to use?
    I would like this simulator to have very good and smooth movement.

    I will also need a Controller to operate the Linear Actuators and the Servo Motors.

    The Force Dymanics Simulator has some kind of Controller under the seat. I am assuming that under the seat are sensors.
    Can the X-simulator members help me the best type of sensors to use and what I need to do under my Simulator seat?

    I am putting together a parts and price list.

    Any other advice that I can get will be very helpful.
    Thank you.
  2. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    What is your budget? If you want to build a Force Dynamics, you will need a lot of money. High speed, high load linear actuators are in the range of $5'000+ per actuator. :eek:
    The principle of the force dynamics is a threaded rod rotated by a 2 hp 230 V motor @ probably 60 rpm Drive Force Dynamics.jpg You can control the motor with a Variable-frequency drive (VFD) and will need a closed-loop controller that maintains the position of the nut – or, as you mention, you drive the ball screw with a servo motor.
    All in all a very nice setup - not cheap though. Again, it depends on your budget :)

    Edit: The tricky thing about 3DOF is that you have to move the full weight of the simulator while with a well balanced 2DOF you only battle with the inertia. The difference of power needed is substantial, at least a factor of 10!
  3. futuresims

    futuresims New Member

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    Hi Value1,
    Thanks for your reply.

    This is what I have in mind.
    High Speed Linear Actuators.docx
    Is there an X-simulator member who can help me choose the correct high capacity Linear Actuators similar to this file for my project?

    I will need two for the back and one for the front.

    There are several X-Simulator Members who are using Pneumatic Linear Actuators and they have two in the front and one in the back.

    I would like to use Electric High Speed Linear Actuators with inline high speed servo motors. I was thinking of perhaps 24vdc and 30amps.

    Is there an X-Simulator member who can help me with this?

    Thank you.
  4. Nima

    Nima Member Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    Hi,do you whant the SIM for flight ore Car Racing ?for flighing
    Is ok but for Racing is this version shit.the actuators for this sim Must have Min 500 mm per sec.and min 4000nm.
  5. bsft

    bsft

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  6. futuresims

    futuresims New Member

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    Hi Nima and bsft.
    This is what I have in have in mind to try.

    Can someone tell me where I can find this Linear Actuator?
    There is a part number on the image and I am hoping someone can tell me who's product it is and provide a web link.
    These Linear Actuators when retracted are approximately 3.5 feet long or approximately 1.0668m Long.
    These Linear Actuators are longer when they are fully extended.
    Linear Actuator.jpg

    The image above is similar to this image.
    Linear Actuator 2.jpg

    High speed Linear Actuators with 3DOF inline Servo Motors.

    Some comments that I have seen is that the first image could be the SCN6 or similar to it.

    The SCN6 images I have seen do not look like either one of the images I have posted here.

    I am also hoping to have some help in selecting a model for me to purchase and a controller to operate them.

    I already have the frame in mind.

    Thanks.
  7. bsft

    bsft

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    please post the part number here and any other details or numbers or letter written on the unit.
  8. futuresims

    futuresims New Member

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    Hi bsft,
    There is a partial part number on the vertical image name linear Actuator
    Click the image and at the bottom there is a partial number.
    I can't understand it but some one may recognize it in combination with its proximate size.

    I would like to take the this time to thank you bsft, Nima, value1.
    Your comments so far are quite helpful.
    From your comments I have been able to do some research on the Linear Actuators and Servo Motors.

    There are many really good X-Simulator members here with a lot of knowledge who have gone through many trials and failures and then have gone on to produce some very exiting simulation products.

    I am just beginning my journey just like many others before me.

    Thanks.
  9. bsft

    bsft

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    do you actually have the actuators in front of you?
    I cannot read the number either........
    So, you need to get a PART NUMBER and or manufacturer details.
    No good posting a pic. I have actuators originally for moving bricks and I sent pics to suppliers, they came back wanting part numbers and dimensions, of which I had to supply.
    There are plenty of actuator suppliers on alibaba.com , but they will ask for part numbers and dimensions.
    For reference, ETH Parker Automation actuators are very fast and very strong and VERY expensive.
    http://onexia.com/Parker/Parker_ADD_ETH_Cylinder.html
    The actuators I was given BY CHANCE, are 120mm throw, but I had to re-motor them with 12v motors , but replacements are $2700 each less motors ;P , even a Chinese equivalent was $650 each ...
    Getting back on tangent....you need to find part numbers or dig through a catalog link like the Parker catalog. You may find what you are looking for and then , go to alibaba.com and contact chinese manufacturers.
    Have fun!
    Dave.
  10. futuresims

    futuresims New Member

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    Hi bsft,
    Thanks for the reply and link.

    Can some one help me with the optimal performance figures for the high performance Linear Actuators for Racing?
    Maximum thrust: _______?
    Maximum stroke: _______?
    Maximum speed: _______?
    Duty cycle: ____________?

    I am going to assume that higher performances and higher response times is required from the Linear actuators for Racing than it is for the Flight Simulator!

    Knowing this info than I will go for the higher performance and response times and not compromising torque because than I can experiment with Racing and flight.

    With this information I will then be able to source various manufacturers as suggested by bsft.

    Hi bsft I am beginning to see the dollar sign's $ growing!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks.
  11. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    Maximum thrust: about 100 kg (1000 N) for a 3DoF for one person will be the minimum
    Maximum stroke: you'll need about +/- 20 cm up/down (i. e. 40 cm stroke)
    Maximum speed: 500 mm/sec is good
    Duty cycle: 80% at least
    yes
    you'll find easily actuators that have this stroke or this speed or this thrust. The trouble is the combination of all the three in one actuator makes it very expensive.
    Thomas
  12. futuresims

    futuresims New Member

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    Hi Value1,
    This is really good information.
    I think I am beginning to realize the costs involved for the different methods of providing motion.

    I have sent out some emails for product information regarding the Linear Actuators.
    I will forward this info to them as well.

    I have seen several projects for the positioning of the three Liner Actuators.

    Method 1, Two Linear Actuators angled and positioned behind the seat and one in the front.

    Method 2, Two Linear Actuators angled and positioned next to where the armrests would be on the seat and one in the front.

    Method 3, Two Linear Actuators angled and positioned next to where the steering and or flight yoke would be and one in the back.

    Simulator Assemblies.jpg
    Is any one method better than the other?

    I have seen these different configurations in the past and they all appeared to work quite excellently.

    Is there a formula for working out the positioning and the angle of the Linear Actuators from the base to the frame that will be moving with the person and seat?

    Now that I have costs comparisons underway I would like to move forward with the measurements of the base and the measurements of the frame including the seat, Steering and or Flight Yoke and the Monitors support.

    Is there a member here that could help me out with the measurements for assembling Method 1?

    Thanks.
  13. bsft

    bsft

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  14. futuresims

    futuresims New Member

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    Hi,
    I have been pricing out some of these types of Linear Actuators and I have found out that they are prohibitively expensive.

    I have chosen to go in a different direction where the prices of the hardware is more reasonable.

    The link you guys have provided here from this X-Simulator Simmer is very good.

    I am going to go with a similar design as per this link you guys have provided here.

    Is there a member here who has shared their drawings for a three or four axis motion system where the motors are located under the base?

    I have noticed some members have posted complete drawings for their Two Axis systems using the SCN5 and the SCN6 Linear Actuators.

    Thank you very much for your support.
  15. value1

    value1 Nerd Staff Member Moderator SimTools Developer SimAxe Beta Tester Gold Contributor SimTools 2.0 Beta Tester

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, Joyrider
    Hi futuresims
    There is only a handful of completed DIY 3DoF's here.
    • One is AldoZ simulator with winches – I'm not sure if it's finally running.
    • Another one running is basthard's simulator (doesn't look like cheap though!).
    • Vulbas project (WIP) with 3 AC motors you can find here (based on the progress so far it might take another few years to finish).
    • Riton's project where you already have the link.
    • I might have missed a few…
    And then there are plenty of unfinished projects/ideas/concepts proposed in the forum.
    Apparently due to the much higher power requirements (see previous post before), there is only a few of us that are brave enough to build a 3DoF :D)
    Ask riton if he's willing to share details of his 3DoF build. Obviously he must be using some CAD software.
  16. futuresims

    futuresims New Member

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    Hi value1,
    Thanks for this info.
    I would like to add a few comments here in relation to your post.

    The X-Simulator Community has very special and extremely talented members.

    I have nicknamed the X-Simulator Members the X-MEN.

    Thanos is one of them, Sim Experienced is another one and the members who are taking the time to help through his is another, included are the members who have shared their ideas and drawings plus those who are producing some incredible simulators through the X-Simulator Forum of which is included the Ultimate MSXR 3/4DOF by Riton.

    I fully understand the concept of the Ultimate MSXR 3/4DOF by Riton.
    I fully understand how he has come to his conclusions.
    It is absolutely brilliant!

    There are several X-Simulator members who have gone through the pain and suffering of prototyping and money who have endured and have actually brought their products to market.

    This is a great success story for the X-Simulator Community.

    Thank you value1for helping me out.
  17. futuresims

    futuresims New Member

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    Hi every one,
    I have looked in this forum for profiles for the X-Plane Flight Simulator and Microsoft Flight Simulator X.

    There is nothing there.

    Also to my surprise Microsoft Flight Simulator X was discontinued 1 year ago by Microsoft.
    I just found that out today.
    I called them on the phone.

    How does X-Simulator software work with the Flight Simulators?

    X-Plane has survived the times and is available.

    What are Flight Simmers using in Place of Microsoft Flight Simulator X?

    I didn't know where to place this request so I just continued with my post.

    Oh I almost forgot.

    Does anyone know what hapenned to www.classicflight.co.uk?
    They appear to have dissapeared as well.

    Thank you.
  18. bsft

    bsft

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    Futuresims is commercial in disguise , please, no one answer any more of his posts.
    He is stealing information here.
  19. Anthony Morris

    Anthony Morris New Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    WOW serious stuff I just got a DOFreality soooo easy :)