1. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Now a Download Plan!
  2. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  3. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant. Do not follow these rules can lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.
    Are you a company? Read our company rules

360 Degree Flight Simulator

Discussion in 'Commercial Simulators and Peripherie' started by FLY-Moscow, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. FLY-Moscow

    FLY-Moscow New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Moscow
    Balance:
    222Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 1 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, AC motor, SimAxe, Joyrider, SimforceGT, Motion platform, 4DOF, 6DOF
    Hi guys!
    Check out this video. Our company disigned first FLY-Motion in 2012

    1111.png
    • Old Old x 1
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2016
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
  3. Pit

    Pit - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,025
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Balance:
    29,816Coins
    Ratings:
    +3,039 / 30 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, 6DOF
    impressive, the chain slack as well :D
  4. BlazinH

    BlazinH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,146
    Location:
    Oklahoma City, USA
    Balance:
    15,861Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,813 / 32 / -1
    It looks pretty fast and fun but it reminds me of an amusement ride from my childhood called Skydiver. It had a wheel in it so you could spin the cars around too.

    skydiver.jpg

    It was great fun until someone behind you lost their lunch.:grin
    • Funny Funny x 2
  5. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,546
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,502Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,814 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Looks like fun and plenty fast, but the oscillations due to chain bounce was quite noticeable at the end of the video. If possible - Direct Drive always FTW.
  6. BonnyGray

    BonnyGray New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Odessa
    Balance:
    226Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hello. What games are you use and do you use oculus? I have the same 720 sim lets change the experience
  7. todd

    todd New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    idaho
    Balance:
    253Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    would be interested in specs etc on this...I want to build one like this for my son...need gearbox info...also rpm and tourque specs....please help....thx,todd
  8. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,546
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,502Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,814 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    LOL. This thread is for commercial sims.;).. Although I'm sure they would be happy to sell you one :).
  9. steveh2112

    steveh2112 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2014
    Messages:
    104
    Occupation:
    semi retired
    Location:
    Phuket, Thailand
    Balance:
    1,084Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    i wonder how long someone would last in that thing without losing your lunch? serious question, can average, none fighter pilots sit in that for any length of time? i guess this guy looked ok after a few mins in a 2DOF tumble dryer


    also, would this work with VR, the position sensor would probably have no idea what's going on?

    i'm building a 2DOF tilting chair design now but i am 360/720 degree curious for a possible future upgrade.

    i just found this on reddit
    Seeing a motion platform like this flip upside down is a very impressive spectacle for the outside observer, and a fun experience for arcade style games.

    It isn't however a compelling or immersive experience for a full on simulation. The reason for this is that when the cabinet spins around your body is too close to the central axis. This means that while you're inverted gravity will be pulling you down out of your seat towards the ground.


    This is the opposite sensation of what you would expect to feel in real life.

    In a real aircraft when you perform a looping maneuver the centrifugal force pushes your body down into the seat with potentially enough force to drain the blood from your head and cause you to lose consciousness, depending on the amount of g-forces. At no point do you feel as though you're upside-down, unless you're flying level and inverted for an extended period of time, something that's fairly uncommon.

    A simple 3-dof motion platform would provide a much more immersive experience than something like the R360. A full 6-dof motion platform would be even better, and likely still cheaper than what it would take to provide an inverted motion.

    • permalink
    • BTCbob 1 point 2 years ago

      I rode a flight simulator at the San Diego Air and Space Museum that flipped upside down and it was amazing! Have you ever tried one? Of course the only way to accurately model all the translational and rotational accelerations of flight is to fly, so your point is trivial. The best we can do on earth is some simulation of those. By factoring in the imperfect ability of humans to sense certain types of acceleration (ie slowly changing acceleration is imperceptible) we can approximate real flying to within the limits of human perception. I don't know how accurately it represented real flying, but going upside down chasing a fighter jet sure felt cool to me!
      Blu_HazeHome ID: 1 point 2 years ago

      Have you ever tried one?

      Oh sure. In the past I've tried the large amusement park motion platforms that could go inverted, as well as all of the SEGA deluxe arcade machines that could do a full 360 degrees as well.

      They can definitely be fun and exciting, I'm not disputing that. My point was simply that I don't believe that it has enough to offer a realistic simulation in order to justify the additional cost and complexity.
    i guess next time i'm in socal i'll try this http://sandiegoairandspace.org/visit/simulators-interactive-areas
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
  10. todd

    todd New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    idaho
    Balance:
    253Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF
    can anyone give me info on motors used, rpm and torque specs. I am going to use 90v dc motors and gear boxes....just need some specs...thx
  11. GusBiz

    GusBiz New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2016
    Messages:
    25
    Occupation:
    Sales IT
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Balance:
    438Coins
    Ratings:
    +25 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I have been developing a 360 degree rolling and pitching simulator for a year now. Its not as simple as here are some specs.

    First of all it has to do with the radius of rotating mass, which determines the torque.

    Torque also is determined by the roll rate you want to experience and the rate at which you want to stop the role rate. That is the point where maximum torque is needed. This then determines the gear boxes you have on the servos and then the power of the servos

    I can give you some specs but honestly its like recommending spring rates for someone elses car suspension. Its very individual to your design.

    If you can't do this kind of physics yourself then this will probably be just a matter of experimentation. The physics isn't that hard, just do a little googling and you will be able to figure it out.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. xytras

    xytras Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    germany
    Balance:
    587Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    I was thinking of different approaches for a 360° simulator but all are too big for a "use at home" scenario.
    @steveh2112 About the feeling being pulled out of the seat instead pushed into the seat. That is also a matter of what aircraft you are planning to simulate and for how long you fly top-down.
    You will never achieve a realistic feeling but I think the thrill does most of it.

    Close to my place is an amusement park where you can "ride" on the end of a robotic arm.
    I did that and it felt just great and sort of flying however for a simulator I am more concerned about the display of the virtual world. The current VR sets require a cable connection and that is difficult.
    It would be easier with cardboard VR set with a smartphone but I haven´t seen any pedals or stick connected to that yet ;-)

    Having a display like shown in the chinese simulator is just wasting way too much space, that thing could almost be half the size. As long as you plan a simulator for battle aircrafts there is no need
    for comfy space. You don´t have much room in a jet or in a doubledecker either so I´d reduce that to the absolut minimum required.

    For me (1,80m) a box 1m³ would be more than enough. That would be even enough for two kids having a seat.
    I would reduce it even more to 1m*0,65*0,9m inner dimensions. Though the reduction of the width just makes sense to reduce the weight, the space is required for the height anyway.

    There is just one problem with these two-pivot designs, there is one axis missing, it doesn´t pan and that sucks if you want to simulate a shot down aircraft spinning to to the ground or a tail hit helicopter.

    So I would probably add a seat rotator (which increases the size of the cage again) or try a different approach with a sphere. Though it is way more difficult to drive a sphere in different directions plus
    it excludes the chance of getting any wires out of the simulator cage.

    Adding a seat rotator this would probably end up in a 2m³ construction and that again is NOT "use at home" friendly :-/
  13. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Marseille - FRANCE
    Balance:
    18,852Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,959 / 19 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    I tried this! and I'm not fighter pilot...

    Because there are no huge acceleration like fighters, it's fine. I really enjoy it for several minutes. But I didn't play one hour...

  14. xytras

    xytras Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    germany
    Balance:
    587Coins
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    Yeah at the end gaming should still be fun but in a A380 sim it was too boring for me. So it should be something in between ;-)
  15. Eloi

    Eloi New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Balance:
    18Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino
    Hi there! it's not the first time or I seen a group be very exiting about this tech' and at other don't. For a good or bad reason. It's cool to imagine playing a video game with that, no like a realistic simulation, but more like a new interface, for fun and simple moments game. But, technically it's hard! How they give power for the Motor? And other command control. they use connector rotator? And in the short movie I can't imagine a motor like this enough to turn a man! don't you think?
  16. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,546
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,502Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,814 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Much respect for what you have built here :thumbs and it does look impressive spinning around, but as you have now found yourself , big rotational movements are really not necessary for simulation once you go down the G pressure system route. Soon found this out myself quite some time ago once I started fitting G pressure systems to my 6DOF stewart platform. Have now bit the bullet and built a new Sim based on this technology with independent seat back and base movement (yes, you still do need some movement - especially heave)+ Head systems, pressure plates/paddles and harnesses in stategic areas. It is very convincing/realistic :), with none of the issues that come with large movement simulators. As a bonus, it is also quiet (my comfort fans in the cockpit are now by far the noisiest part of the sim), takes up much less space then the Stewart Platform and is easy to get into and out of. In the end, as long as your having fun, keep at it. FI, From my experience, to do it right, it is maybe easier to build a stewart platform :rolleyes:.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
  17. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,546
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,502Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,814 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    I did not just fall down this path, it was a iterative process testing real world systems as I went. I originally had a 2DOF seat mover which sat on top of surge and traction loss tables, which I later also added a in-seat heave device. From there I built a 6DOF stewart platform which I started to add G paddles and harnesses to. What really opened my eyes was the very realistic 6DOF Cueing software that has been released this year, which showed me that even in a roll, if you can get the initial pressure right and keep the right amount of pressure in the roll, the body/mind really thinks you are rolling - dito for other maneuvers. I even had friends test this out and they were amazed that when they thought that the aircraft was banking at 45 degrees, it was in fact level. I would tell them to lift the VR headset and they were very surprised. In closing (away on holidays at the moment :)) , I'm sure your sim feels great, just pointing out that IMO there is another way. Also happy for us to agree to disagree :).
  18. joe extraknow

    joe extraknow Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    United States
    Balance:
    1,541Coins
    Ratings:
    +38 / 2 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF
    @apointner

    Very impressive!!!

    If you are doing real roll/pitch (360 degrees), I don’t understand why you need “motion cue algorithms”?

    I am not sure how fast actually you can roll and pitch. But this is most impressive home made fight sim I ever have seen on internet.

    On the seat belt tensionner, how much force does it pull upon your shoulders? Say, while pulling the jet up (pitch up) or making fast turn with 6g. I am not a pilot so don’t know what is a feel of 6g, but not from seat belt force I will think. The force/pressure from back and bottom of the seat, right?

    I see some one made g-suit for, which I don’t quite understand.

    thanks
  19. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,546
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,502Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,814 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Yes I did, now I use the movement - Surge/Sway/heave of the seatback and seatbase to simulate the OnSet and then paddles/pressure plates for constant pressure.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. apointner

    apointner Siddhartha

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    N 48° 9'0.88" E 12° 5'45.84"
    Balance:
    723Coins
    Ratings:
    +17 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform
    Hmm, was it difficult to align the OnSet Movement with the static pressure in this different conditions? I guess that is the "art" isn´t?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. SeatTime

    SeatTime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,546
    Location:
    Newcastle Australia
    Balance:
    27,502Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,814 / 37 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, AC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Can be a bit of a 'art' and you do need to really understand the forces involved and there effect on your body in that environment EG - pressure on the thighs and torso is crucial for flight - not so much for a race car . Therefore you need to build it with this in mind with separate motors/adjustable paddles/pressure pads. That way most of the 'tuning' can be done in either hardware/software once you have it working and can feel the effects.
    • Winner Winner x 1
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019