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2dof+X

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by kurgine, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    I am afraid that wiper motors can drain more then 25A each, so when doubled it would be more then JRK can handle, and if i dont have such suply of power from PSU that should protect controllers.
  2. bsft

    bsft

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    it will not protect the controllers. What would happen is the power supplies will be overloaded and shut down, and the jrk would try to overload itself by trying to drain power thats not there and shut down.
    Its like running a too small power supply in a computer with a big graphics card, fine for net surfing, but as soon as you start a game, it tries to drain power it doesnt have and shuts down.
    As said, reducing power will not help. It only drains what it needs. If you have wipers pulling more than 25 amps each, thats fine, but as you have 2 motors per controller, you are pushing the jrk too hard. It will survive, but as soon as you put in big motion, it will keep shutting down or simply stop working until you reset it.
  3. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Totally agree with you. Im just saying that this way JRK's will be safe as there will be not enough power to burn them like with the car battery.
  4. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    I run a 600camp car battery on my set up with 2 jrks , no issue to report, both pull in the 45amp range in direction changes, but only running single motors on it. Best to use a power supply that has a proper filter in and out line as when most H Bridge , Jrk included they all produce back current down the power feed to charge RC type battery setups, ie when motor spins down under gravity and not via power, most intelligent controllers do this in order to lengthen the battery life, its why when std psu from computers are used, people report they get hot and sometimes shut down , its because of the charging current coming back down the line.
    This is why I have always recommended either a power supply with internal protection or placing a DC battery in parallel with a psu , others have found a way to include a resistor and diode into the power circuit, I like the dc battery cause if a jrk get hungrier than the amps my psu can perform at it will draw it from the battery vice a versa if the jrk pumps amps back to psu it is captured in the battery and the psu stays nice and cool. Protection.
    As for running two off one still not sure that's a good idea, wiper drawing more than 15amps be surprised maybe only if the lever was locked and it was about to burn out they normally run in the 5-8amp range so expect double that on stall current.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Almost finished with my rig, have some updates. It was all cool until i put metal rig construction on top of platform and troubles started. From the start it was running ok and after 2-3 minutes of continue working motors start to jitters and jerk. Just a bit and then more and more and in few next minutes it was impossible to use rig as it only was jittering and jerking with very slow motion. I find 2500-5000 errors "motor controler" in JRK utility after 2-3 mins of work.
    At first i thought that problem was because i did not done ground insulation on the motors and my motors work with opposite polarization, so when changing polarization in one group of two motors it somehow gives errors. I disassembled everything cut contacts inside CEP motors board and after punting all together had same issue. Then changed placement of the front motors so all motors was running with same polarization, same issue. Then i decided that this is because of the load, again disconected everything so motors could spin freely, it worked much longer but after 4-5 minutes again jittering and jerking start to show up. It was ok with one motor but if 2 conected to one output had errors in the controller. Description of error on the polulu site gave no sugestion or initialization of the problem. After some time spent in the robotic forums i decided to change connection of the motors from parallel which i had to serial. Motorai Serial.jpg Solved. Finally it runs like one big motor with double winding. Run it 3 evenings without "motor controller" errors.
    Also spend a lot of time with PID setup, but find nothing better then "default" wiper setup 2/2 0/3 1/1, it is a bit laggy but anything stronger or more precise makes movement jittery and unpleasant.
    Another thing i find out. All the time from the begging i was trying setups with "Assetto Corsa" It was very dificult ansd have still unfinished with my profile(it is done best i can do, but not as i really like) because limits are so small and cant make precise movement. When i start to work with "Race Room Experience" it was like day and night, just from the beggining without any adjustion movement was smooth and deep. Have only these two games yet but wonder if all games have so different telemetric data? Also is it possible to enter decimal numbers in the "Engine Tuning Center"? Like i need to put 1.5 it allows me to do so bet when i press "save" it fixes it to 15.
    Now some pics:

    Metal construction of of the rig:
    DSC_0266.jpg DSC_0267.jpg DSC_0268.jpg

    Pedal adjustment:
    DSC_0275.jpg

    Made rig possible to use for person which is much longer then 192cm which is my height and shorter then 130cm which is height of my 2.5 year son( just need big pillow on the seat as per high of the wheel), also when need to store it, extra length of the tubes can go trough at the end, so rig can be very compact.. Length adjustment:
    DSC_0277.jpg DSC_0282.jpg DSC_0283.jpg

    Had to make reinforcement for the motor brackets, had issue with my pot connections when motors start to sway on bigger movements:
    DSC_0270.jpg


    Finished DCM600 conversion connected pins 4,6,8,10 together, so have working PSU with quiet fan. Running JRK on 0.00 amperage which is unlimited without any isues. Only few times i heard that PSU fans start to work harder, all thsese times i have been leaned over seat to look at the bottom. It is nice that When it overloads i can hear how PSU motors starts to spin LOUD :)
    DSC_0272.jpg

    Also made whole setup easealy movable with 2 wheels in the front and 2 square blogs at the end, it rised whole setup by 6 cm but i can move it in the room without much troubles.
    DSC_0273.jpg DSC_0274.jpg


    Gear shift and mouse pad/keyboard location and bracketing:
    DSC_0278.jpg DSC_0281.jpg
    • Like Like x 1
  6. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    Well done its alive, had my doubts a single Jrk will run 2x dc motors, very well done a new concept working.:thumbs

    All looking good, yes with the plugin we use the raw data that the game developer has put in place and use no fancy or laggy codes to turn it into a std movement for all. Meaning we can set our sims to the way we want them for every game. you should try Grid 2 worth the download the motion again is even more defined. :thumbs

    With the Game engine you need to use whole numbers for the % in the Axis Assignments, but in turn you can use decimals in the tuning centre to fine tune the motion feel.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    I have 4.xxxxxx of Surge in tuning center min/max after capture. And cant really feel it works. It is still too low if i lower to 3/-3, but it is too much if i do 2/-2. Cant make it 2.5 or 2.75 as when i try it, it allows me, but after i press save it saves fixed number without dot like it makes 25 or 27 from 2.5 or 2.7. Also i noticed that center uses comma and i cant press coma just dot.
    Another thing i dont see lower buttons in tuning center, i see buttons but they are black, i know meaning of them only because i saw it in documentation description, cant see what is written there. Not sure if that is my pc or something wrong with the soft.

    Still learning which number does what in all 3 programs, would be nice somewhere to see logic, which does what and sequence.
    Not sure what is difference if i lower numbers in axis assigment or in manager editor. And how to limit single DOF, lets say i want Sway to move in less amplitude, if i lower assigment or editor it becomes also slower and less powerfull, but i like force just not so much in movement to the sides. If i put axis limiting im loosing in Surge too. Filters like boundary will simply cut force at the top if i understood it correct.

    Another thing which is better:
    a. Lower axis assigment but higher Manager editor numbers
    b. Lower Manager editor but higher axis assigment numbers
    c. balance in these two
    d. or it depends on personal opinion?
  8. bsft

    bsft

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    Thats weird, I can type 2.3 exactly in both boxes in tuning centre , then i press enter, then I save and it saves them as is, it doenst change them.
    Perhaps post a pic to show us.
    Boundary is a good filter, you get full motion to the point where it settles those extremes. I use it to help stop overshoot on my frame.
    Personal opinion in setting motion, have a play around and test results.
  9. kurgine

    kurgine Member

    Joined:
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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    I find out what was this dot problem about. I have reinstaled my PC and W7 catch up my location in regional settings and somehow it mixed dot with comma, Lithuanian is too complicated for Microsoft i guess... Had same problem with Excel so when find out what wrong was there remembered that have same in SimTools. So now i can write decimals too.
    Another thing:
    Tuning.jpg

    Not a big deal as i know what those buttons are, but before i reinstalled my system everything was alright. I guess something wrong from my side, any ideas what could i do wrong?
  10. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Have question to you guys, is it ok to use USB splitter to connect 2 JRK's to one USB in PC, what about 'comm' will PC still understand which axis belongs to what 'comm' or i can have trouble with this? Also what about extensions for USB, i know total USB length can not be longer then ~5M and that is not a problem. Just i want to make all rig tidy. My idea is to have 2 short >1m wires from JRKs going in to a splitter and from there one ~2m wire to PC. I guess i can get a bit of lag from setup like this, but maybe someone try it and can give a comment about it?
  11. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    Yep I use a Hub on all my Jrk projects.
    Your answers on tuning and how to use the 3 programs correctly are all answer in the documentation I wrote, seems no body can be bothered to read it.
  12. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Thats not true! :)
    I can ensure you, that without documentations i would still shaking only one side of my ribs ;)
    Hub for USB, it is a big relief for me to hear that someone use them.
  13. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Hello to everyone. Was absent for some time. Had my rig sitting in the corner for some time. It is actualy finished, was working great and shaking strong. However my new borns were freaking out from noise and action so had to put this project aside for some time. Now decided to renew it. All hardware is as it was left so i strongly believe it must be ok. Only what is missing is software and knowledge how to set it up. Five years past, i am looking now at all this dont even know where to start. Need to gather files for JRK's wake them up and Simtools of course. Do not remember a thing about it :)

    To refresh some information:
    My final rig runs on 4 wiper motors cross connected to help each other as 2 motor wiper variant. JRK controlers with server PSU for each. It all sits on centered column joint. Self made seat. Adjustable legs. And still same old Logitech 27.
    Adding some pics of how it looks right now.

    DSC_3504.JPG DSC_3506.JPG DSC_3507.JPG
    • Like Like x 1
  14. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The main update is SimTools 2 being released and all the plugins being updated to use it and companion apps like Game Vibe, here is the SimTools manual: https://www.xsimulator.net/community/faq/rtfm-start-with-the-official-simtools-documentation.117/

    The important set up difference is:

    SimTools 2.0 Input Settings - The difference from SimTools 1.3 to SimTools 2 in setup is that in the Interface Settings instead of axis defined like this <Axis1> it now has designate grouping for a or b in SimTools 2 for each axis assignment, like this <Axis1a>

    SimTools 2 also uses the native JRK API, so is even more responsive, the down side is that you can't run SimTools and the JRK setup utility at the same time.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Thanks for your replay @noorbeast.

    Does it mean that old numbers that i have print screened from previous setup will not work? I guess at least PID's should remain same, just different way to input them?
  16. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR - The Next Generation Staff Member Moderator

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Your JRK settings for PID should be the same. Your old SimTools motion profile settings will likely need to be tweaked to take full advantage of the SimTools 2 upgrade.
    • Informative Informative x 1