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2dof+X

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by kurgine, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Finished with electro box, using some electric connection box, cuted sides an added plastic grills, also fan on the top. For now fan is connected straight to the input, later will add switch for it(if needed). Also tidied all wires to sleeves:
    DSC_0248.jpg
    DSC_0249.jpg
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Historiker

    Historiker Dramamine Adict Staff Member Moderator Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    DC motor, Arduino, Motion platform, 6DOF
    Nice looking box, I like it!
  3. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Was trying to run whole system again last night.
    Something is realy wrong. It looks like game and platform runs in different race. At first i thought it is lag but now i am not sure. Platform somethimes starts to roll on strights, does not react on turns at all and then starts to move after turn is finnished, half way it can go with one side down and one side up and etc. It works very well when testing output in simengine or in jrk utility.
    I guess i did something wrong on jrk or simtools setup.
    I am using JRK's setup from @Erwan960 thread with @bsft and @eaorobbie updates. But those are for big worm motors and i run wiper motors can it be problem?
    Also when trying to understand simtools setup, using one efect per time but even then platform moves diferent then track is.
    Any sugestions where i could do mistakes?
  4. bsft

    bsft

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    Please post pics of your jrk settings.
  5. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Here they are:
    Input.jpg Feedback.jpg PID.jpg Motor.jpg
  6. bsft

    bsft

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    that will work on wipers, maybe you need to look at your profiles for motion, something may not be right there.
    Best post them as well please
  7. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Was trying to use different % on axis, 1 axis or 2 axis, all axis. Have 70% on main and in editor everything in 0, was trying MinMax tuning, it changed movement from big sways to smaller sharper. But it still half of the lap goes leaned to one or another side or moving where i go stright i mean i dont see those moves possible on the road :)

    Axis Assigments.jpg Main.jpg Editor.jpg
  8. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Solved, loaded one of the presets and find out that have to invert one axis on the Surge :) Now it makes sense...
    Was trying to tighten one of the pots and did it too hard, so now i need one more pot.
    One side goes up not smoothly on JRK setup software and on output testing from the lowest to highest position it goes jumping or vibrating i thought that sometging wrong with motor changed motor still the same, also sometimes when from highest to lowest it goes further then min point... I hope that this is because of the pot that i have to change, will see tomorrow.

    Edit: was reading here and there, i guess this vibration you guys call Jitter and usualy it is from pots. Can someone sugest good source for Hall efect pot?
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  9. AceOfSpies

    AceOfSpies Living the Dream!

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    My Motion Simulator:
    3DOF, DC motor, JRK, Motion platform
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  10. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Have update of my build and this time big one :)
    Finished my double motor setup, so:
    1 JRK + 1 Pot + 2 motors as onegroup on the output, it works.
    DSC_0260.jpg DSC_0262.jpg

    At the moment giving maximum that JRK can regulate which is 38A for group of two motors. It is strong, much stronger then it was with one motor. Even if i will not use unlimited amperage from JRK's and will run only on 38A it was realy worth to try. It broke shoulder bones on Asseto Corsa when go out of the track, with 100% in main and 10 to the effects(surge+sway 60% on axis), so had to do 70% in main to continue testing :). My seat is still plain plywood as had no time for upholstery and sometimes it really hurts:
    DSC_0256.jpg
    A lot of movement, which is fast, much faster then before, but still can feel a bit of lag, specially if compared with the wheel. Still have done nothing with profile, so hope it will be better after setup.
    Now can start to think how to put wheel and pedals on the platform, because finaly i believe that it will be able to move it all.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. bsft

    bsft

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    Nice job there, DERIY inspired a lot of people with his design.
    If you go full frame, you will need to move the pivot point forward to get the balance right and best move the motors further forward as well, to lessen the load on the wipers.
    Yes the JRKS can really kick when they are running right.
    Do you have a video in action yet?
    Cheers, David.
  12. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Thinking to do full frame on the floor, then make balance point on it, and only then put it on platform. Difficult thing is that this will be used by me and my wife, and we have 20cm and 20kg difference. So it has to be adjustable.

    Got video with the phone camera:
  13. bsft

    bsft

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    motion looks good so far. I cannot really see the benefit of using 4 motors in a 2DOF though, you are still on a balance point, but nice idea.
    As for balance point, My wife is about the same as yours , a foot shorter and 30 kg lighter than me. She doesnt use my sims, but I have had her as a test bench. I balance the frame for me and anyone else lighter gets on there is no problem . My main test pilot is my now 10 year old son.
  14. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    The only benefit that it can be made cheapo, using same wipers motors and strong enough(i hope) to move full rig. Need nothing additional only +2 motors and have twice stronger movement. After i try when it was done with single motor it doesnt feel like it could move me with wheel and pedals. And i want full rig not only seatmover. So till ill get motors i want and i need for this setup that was cheap and simple solution. Now i can continue idea and build full rig which i will use later when will get Motiondynamic's. With seatmover i would need to make another temporal something which i would throw when motors will come.


    About balance, im going to make rig half lying position similar to RedBull Sim, just pedals will be lower in line of seats lowest point:
    rbr1.jpg
    And i am afraid that balance will differ depending on the height of driver. Dont want to raise seat up because of weight inertia.
  15. bsft

    bsft

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    In that case, shoulder mount motor at rear would be best.
  16. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    Ok some testing in the Jrk settings are needed, to reduce the lag and bring the speed of the motors finding position up to an acceptable speed.
    Now I would setup the configuration utility, jump on and start one motor and move it via the slider in the utility.
    In doing this look at the graph, best to double click it and only turn on the scaledback value and the target value, you need to modify the pid so that the two lines come to as close as each other, in a perfect world these values should be the same, but a 5-10% error is acceptable, with a few hours of fussing over it and new hall effect pots the error was reduced under 5%.
    Now the slider can be controlled via the keyboard too, page up and page down steps the movement, and home and end makes it go to the min and max.

    Now I test this and if the error is too high, I adjust my P value up and test again, and again , now its getting closer and faster but notice some spikes in the graph on the end movement, ok Increase D a little, ok smoother.
    Now I tend to push the P an if it seems to occilate , I know I have gone too far.

    The Pid you are using is a base to start from, and is for 180rpm motors not 30-50rpm motors which will require a stronger PID.

    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Thanks @eaorobbie ill try to play with it. At firs have to find some info what it means because i believe that just blindly change numbers in P and D without knowing what it does lowers my chances to find good setup a lot :)
    Thanks to you guys that i have these starting Pid numbers as base and can make it run, which inspires to continue with all this project.
  18. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
  19. kurgine

    kurgine Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK, 4DOF
    Thanks @eaorobbie for your replay also @RacingMat for info in recourse.


    I just find out that shipping kills idea to get MotionDinamics motors. So i came to another idea about my setup. All 4 motors run strong now, ofcourse it is still without full frame, but i believe it will be able to move frame too, as i still can add more current to the groups. Right now i am using big car battery and a bit afraid to give unlimited current, i know JRK's have protection at 49A, but 6 seconds is more then enough to burn things when you have fully charged 110A battery. Got PSU few days ago, so power will be more controllable, will be able to make stable ~13,5V which should increase speed a bit, also it will supply actual 47A maximum with 50A pikes(using 38A at the moment), that excludes chances to give too much current to JRK's so i will be able to make unlimited amperage in the configuration, which should increase power of the motors by another ~25%. If that will be powerful enough to move full rig, i think try to move motors closer to the axis and lower movement amplitude in JRK feedback min/max, this should make movement a bit faster and ofcourse more load to the motors. So i should play with balance between strength and speed, changing motors distance to the axis.
  20. bsft

    bsft

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    motors only drain what they need, too much power on hand is not the problem , like a 1000 watt power supply in a simple single core pc, it only drains what it needs.
    • Agree Agree x 2