1. Hundreds of coffees, endless nights of debugging and coding, and countless feedback by our beta testers led to this new major release. SimTools 2.4 is probably the version with the most upgrades and improvements in a single release ever. Look at everything Dustin has included:
    SimTools 2.4 all features.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For downloading SimTools plugins you need a Download Package. Get it with virtual coins that you receive for forum activity or Buy Download Package - We have a zero Spam tolerance so read our forum rules first.

    Buy Download Package Now!
  3. Do not try to cheat our system and do not post an unnecessary amount of useless posts only to earn credits here. We have a zero spam tolerance policy and this will cause a ban of your user account. Otherwise we wish you a pleasant stay here! Read the forum rules
  4. We have a few rules which you need to read and accept before posting anything here! Following these rules will keep the forum clean and your stay pleasant here. Do not following these rules will lead to permanent exclusion from this website: Read the forum rules.

2dof to 3dof DIY Seat mover

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Nick Moxley, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Just got in the door and have to run out again, Ill come up with a list for ya a little later today.





    SEAT FRAME/CV mount is DUNN.....Yee haaa.....Rod ends showed up yesterday and the 10mm's are MORE than up to snuff and for the Price i really couldn't argue. Update pics later today.
  2. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    So here's the 10mm Rod ends, I was left with a dilemma right off the bat. the Rod ends Sat Far too close to the frame itself and the Lever's causing binding. so Instead of trying to find some Unique Washer with a Small O.D. and proper I.D. I just took a 5/16 nut which was big enough to drill out to 9.8mm or a 25/64 bit and used them as a Washer spacing the rod ends out nicely from the frame. I also picked up a Few Nylock 10mm's for the Lever's and I'll also Add a bunch of red loctite to prevent the nuts from coming loose.

    [​IMG]

    Here's my CV joint and base setup, The Joint can be removed from both seat and base if needed for service(not likely I already rebuild with fresh grease) I somewhat understand the different "roll over point" of a CV compared to a U joint after playing with this CV in the Vice the other day but still feel this will do the job. IF its Not right I can always source a U joint and replace the CV.

    [​IMG]



    And lastly the Seat frame, I really didn't want a plain Jane square back frame, so After dropping off the seat to the welder yesterday and coming for my first check up after a few hours he had a few awesome angle's that matched the seat perfectly. The CV mount on the bottom Is on the 10deg angle that my seat originally sat at. This is to maintain the CV perfectly upright in the stationary position.

    Looking now at the pics, you cant see all the angles on the back but Im sure in future pics when mounted to the seat Ill be able to show them


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Next up is a coat of paint for the seat frame and base and starting to get it all mounted to figure out my motor arm length's.

    Question do you set the arms length with the Lever's parallel to the Base ? Assuming so.

    Also Starting to question weather or no the motor/Rotor/Stator friction is going to hold the seat in place when its not powered on, I use my Rig for more than just racing so I might have to find a wedge to prevent the seat from rocking back. I remember reading about the motor's being updated or something to that effect, Or was i sleep reading ? lol



    Again Thanks a million to all you guys who have helped with all my little questions here and there. Without all you guys i would have NEVER taken this on. So Thank guys. =)
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
  3. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    looks great man!
    The motors still move with power off, so yes, chock them with something.
    Or just fire up the motors in jrk utility to hold them.
  4. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Ok so here's the final angles im looking at, Rear arms are looking at about 38" long so with the Rod ends and a piece of nice round 1" bar at Homedepot i found those will cap off some of the last pieces, aside from Pots and Heatsinks.

    I dont know what this angle is, But with the rebuild of the base i can move the pedals forward almost as much as i need. so If I need more, Its there. I also think i came up with an rather simple locking tool to prevent the lever's from rolling down when not powered, A simple C shape out of flat bar that will click onto the lever and to the top of the gear box. Ill get some pics when i get it tacked up by the welder.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  5. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    looks good man.
  6. prodigy

    prodigy Burning revs

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    433
    Location:
    Croatia
    Balance:
    6,387Coins
    Ratings:
    +377 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, SCN5
    @Nick Moxley
    The angle in the first pic looks fine, but on the second picture I'm thinking that attaching points up on the shoulders should be a bit wider.
  7. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    The Upper mount was done like that due to the width i have to work with the base and storage. The Rods ends with proper spacing will bring that angle out a little, but Its just welded steel so it could be modified if needed at a later date. I roughly based the width of the top mount off a picture i posted on page 3 and confirmation from Robbie that it was ok. We'll see how it goes and like i said can be changed with a longer piece.

    Looking at a SimXperience Stage 5 setup from the side angle look pretty darn close to what i have, the rear somewhat the same but a Wider base for the actuators and a narrow top mount like mine.
  8. prodigy

    prodigy Burning revs

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    433
    Location:
    Croatia
    Balance:
    6,387Coins
    Ratings:
    +377 / 3 / -0
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, SCN5
    @Nick Moxley

    Your angle in photo from page 3 and in this last photo is now different and bigger therefore making additional tension on the arm where the rod is connected and also additional load on the motor. The SimXperience SCN actuator is operating very different, it doesn't have an rotating arm like with DC motors where all the load and tension comes through, the actuator position is way up and it's rod is moving up and down so the tension and force is applied on actuator rod and there is almost no tension on the bottom connection of the rod because it is solid fixed, therefore the angle position of actuators are not that of the problem if they are narrow. But with DC motors the approach should be different.

    If there is too much force on your connecting arm, it could start to bend, and the narrower the rods are, the bigger the tension and the force is, so is load on the motors.

    Let me try explaining on the photos, here on your last photo, hoping you will understand the picture.

    img_tension_point.jpg img_tension_actuator.jpg

    And I'm saying this from my own experience, look what happened to me with one of my older testing build, I had also a narrow shoulder connections like you and I've learned something from that.

    error2.jpg

    Look how the arm got bended, I know it's not very thick but even so you won't noticed it right away, but after a week or two or three it will slowly bend under tension and the motors will suffer.
    It's just my advice, the best angle from bottom to shoulder would be 7-10° tops to avoid that tension, which in your photo from page 3 looks like, maybe that is why @eaorobbie agreed with, but on the last photo the angles are bigger.
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  9. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    The actual flat bar you used for a lever is too thin. You need 4-5mm thick , then it will not bend. I used 4mm thick flat bar on a mates shoulder mount full frame recently and he is moving a heap more weight, 80mm ctc lever with 60:1 boxes and it doesnt bend. Mind you , his dc motors are at 15 deg angle at back and out to the sides. If they were like Robs, they would move better, but this bloke doesnt have the room.
    And instead of nuts between rod ends, use some small gauge pipe, of 10mm ID, that usually means a 12mm OD pipe. It fits nicely over the 10mm bolt, and holds the rod end in a better place.
    I was buggering rod ends because the nuts were jammed against the rod ends. Since going to use a little bit of pipe either side and one nut holding it all, I got more lean out of the rod ends and I wasnt stuffing them up.
    @eaorobbie , can you please check with our information?
  10. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    prodigy, Not even remotely worried about my lever's, they are Uber beefy. Did you not look at the picture at the top of this page ?

    Thanks for the tip on the 12mm pipe Dave, I think my modded Nuts will allow enough for the links to move as they need, If not pipe shopping i go.

    Got the 3/4" round bar for the rear ams today, Tomorrow they will be welded up and the final assembly stages can begin. :D
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Motor locks and rear arms done and still waiting on pots. Supposedly they were in US customs as of yesterday.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  12. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Hey Dave, How big of hole am i drilling for the Pot's i ordered ? I got the flat spotted versions am have gotten myself all confused as to how big the hole needs to be with looking at the technical data sheet. I've drilled to .216 or 5.49mm but thats for the flat spot...I will need to drill larger wont I ?

    Wish the pots would just show up already so i can see them for myself....Damn shipping from the UK.
  13. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    dunno, I just measured the overall diameter of the shaft not including the flat bit and drill out a hole. I think it was 6mm, then I drill a 2mm hole right through back of the bolt with the pot shaft in so the 2mm hole went through that, then I put apiece of wire in, twisted it and that held the pot steady. You can use a bit of araldite as well for good measure if you like.
    Look at my desk racer 2DOF post to see how I mounted the pots.
    Cheers, David.
  14. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    heres the PDF to check out, as far as im reading it, I screwed up and have to go bigger on the hole in the axle bolt. i went .216 or 5.49mm and looks like i need to be .2497 or 6.33mm

    http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1704813.pdf
  15. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Ok so i re drilled the bolts to .249 with a 1/4 bit in the drill press. No problems.

    JRK's are all wired up to power supply and motor's, Wires ran to the pot locations and everything else is basically ready to go minus Heat sinks for JRK's, Pots for motor's and power supply voltage mod.

    Pot mount

    [​IMG]
  16. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    yep, that will do well.
    I cannot open the pic right up as photobucket is not letting me.
    2014-03-21 11.39.01.jpg
    drill a 2mm hole right through all the bolt and pot shaft and runa bit of wire through it to hold it as well.
    like in the pic above.
  17. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member Staff Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Messages:
    2,593
    Occupation:
    CAD Detailer
    Location:
    Ellenbrook, Western Australia
    Balance:
    19,633Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,652 / 22 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, JRK, SimforceGT, 6DOF
    I drilled a 6.5mm hole in my mount bolts, plus I use a flange of thin Ali to mount the pot to the motor, so if there is any flex in the motor mount to the frame mount, my pot will always stay in the centre of the bolt. I chose this design after seeing another do the same with his sim with the same motors.
    DSC00208.JPG
  18. bsft

    bsft

    Balance:
    Coins
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I found that the way I did it is a problem and @eaorobbie is right. Mount the pot brackets on the gearbox housing. Having brackets mounted separately was causing pots to be pulled and pushed, hence breaking then at a rapid rate. I am going to buy more brackets tomorrow to mount pots onto gearbox housing. I will update a photo here and on desk racer thread.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. RacingMat

    RacingMat Well-Known Member Gold Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,927
    Location:
    Marseille - FRANCE
    Balance:
    18,144Coins
    Ratings:
    +1,849 / 16 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, DC motor, Arduino
    yes, I agree. The best way is to mount the pot bracket onto gearbox. :)

    another example for you Nick: 20130413154729-RacingMat-montage-potentiomy-tre-2-.JPG
  20. Nick Moxley

    Nick Moxley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,772
    Occupation:
    Owner/Operator- Moxleys Rantals
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Balance:
    19,336Coins
    Ratings:
    +2,478 / 29 / -2
    My Motion Simulator:
    2DOF, 3DOF, DC motor, JRK
    Thanks for examples guys. I honestly dont think my angle iron mount will be able to tweak or deflect any which way to damage the Pot. But I will definitely keep an eye out for any unwanted flex. Im just trying to run the forces through my head and cant see where the Pot will be under stress.

    BUT for the 2$ it is for brackets and the fact it'll eat up a little more time before the pots show up, Ill fab a mount off the gear box, I cant use the top hole due to my Motor locks needing to "clip" over the top of the box. So I plan to use the hole Right Under the Motor mount screw's to the gear box, a Simple 3" L bracket should reach fine.