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News 2DOF, Simtool, Arduino, pneumatic cylinder.

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by SixCyl, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    Hi Guys, Hello everybody in the community.
    Alright ,It's time to launch me.
    I present you my personal project now,
    My goal is to reach the build of a simulator with 2DOF, But for now I think to prototyping a model with only One DOF (Pitch to start).
    Do You think i'm crazy?(Maybe?)
    It's not a good idea to do it ?

    I explain :
    My reason is because I want to try to put in motion my simulator by pneumatic cylinders as motion source instead of electric motors !!! And I know that it's not the most easy way to implemented for a simulator.

    In some,
    maybe not a true option to build a simulator with insurance to achieve it with acceptable result.(depends of requirement of everyone. some people may find satisfaction when others waiting more results to find this results satisfying)

    I will be Happy if somebody can contradict me, and can add a link to a place where a diy "working" pneumatic simulator is builded, and with luck where some details are shared.

    >Try to perform a simulator with pneumatic cylinder(with help of the members. I hope), and maybe offer the possibility to the community to build their own simulators with pneumatic system.

    THIS is my challenge !
    I dont know if I will reach the goal? But I will do my best to achieve it !

    It's the reason why I dont want to build a true functional plateform for the two DOF now! ,(the issue of my project is uncertain at this time.)


    I want study the control of motion of pneumatic cylinder before to project any type of simulator style. Depends of results obtained. (Speed, strenght...)

    I hope to find any help needed on xsimulator.net.
    :cheers
  2. Ads Master

    Ads Master

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  3. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    Some pics of the component than I think to use for building this project:

    Pneumatic cylinders:
    Verin petit.jpg


    valve actuator:
    Solenoïde.jpg
  4. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    Pressure regulator:
    Regulateur pression.jpg

    and Arduino Board:
    Arduino Uno.jpg
    • Like Like x 2
  5. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I have already everything needed for assembly. (hose, fittings...)
    For beginning, Just need to find the right transistor or MOSFET between the Arduino and the valve actuator ???

    maybe a thing in this sort:

    interfacing arduino with coil.gif

    But what is the better transistor for my application ?(fast actuating of coil)
    Somebody can help me with this issue ?
    I think to tried with Tip122 with wiring same as in the joined schematic. Good ? Not good ?

    For info:
    The coil on actuator is rated @ 1.28W and 24V DC.
    I ask me if a IRZ44 will be not better for my use ???
    Somebody have most knowledge than me in transistor to oriented me toward the best way? (I'm not an electronic conceiver, I'm lost in the wide range of electronic suitable.)
  6. Wanegain

    Wanegain Active Member

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    Very interesting project. I have no experience and no knowledge with pneumatic actuator, so I will follow the thread !
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  7. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    Air speed is basically down to how few restrictions you have in the airlines. Bigger air lines = faster air movement. It's the same for air ride in cars.

    The solenoids obviously are electric and very fast at switching, they'll be much faster than the air moving though as it's compressible so there may be a cushioning effect. Please show a video of the actuators moving up and down when you get it set up. Bear in mind as you load weight to them, they will slow down. The components you have are rated to around 150psi. You will need a compressor and tank with a reserve of air to enable the speed you will need.

    One tip I can give is to look at valve blocks rather than these individual valves. It'll be cheaper in the long run.

    Very interesting project and will be good to see how well it works.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    @Barry
    Thanks for tip, I also have valve blocks. I goes to see about specs of them.

    I think add one or most pressure regulators and working about fast driving solenoid valve to varying the travel speed.
    Do you think that it's a good way to adjust the speed and movement of cylinders ?

    Regards.
  9. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    A fast action solenoid also has to be paired up with a couple of other considerations. Airline size and pressure. The airline size within components also has to be considered. Any restriction on the lines or valves will slow the sim down. The best option would be to try a test on the actuator with it weighted down to see how it performs with maybe 20 - 30 kgs on them. If it works well, great, if not, you will need to try some changes.
  10. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    @Barry
    Ok, Have you got an idea of what transistor i can use to fast actuating solenoid ?
  11. cgodwin

    cgodwin Active Member Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I originally planned on using pneumatic actuators for my flight sim. I got tons of speed and power out of cheap cylinders - way beyond what a SCN6 or a 1/4 hp gear motor could manage. But I quickly abandoned the idea once I figured out how expensive and complicated it was going to be to control the cylinders.

    Pneumatics are generally used for full range of motion, or for constant speed over a controlled range. Once you add trying to vary the speed, with the controlled acceleration and deceleration you need for an effective simulator, you need to use servo valves and a servo valve controller/amplifier. I'm sure an Arduino could be made to work as a servo valve controller/amplifier with some external electronics. But the servo valves themselves aren't cheap. I forget the details, but the price of the valves and controllers was going to cost me well over $1,000 USD, and I had no luck finding what I needed used or in surplus at a price that would work for me.

    I think having real-time control over the speed of the movements is important for the simulator to have the feel you want. I don't believe you can simply run a PWM signal into a solenoid valve and vary the speed. While I didn't try it, my local pneumatic supply shop told me that even if I got it to work (they didn't think it was possible) the rapid cycling of the solenoid valve would cause it to reach the life of the valve (maybe 100,000 cycles) within a few minutes.

    I can't tell from your picture if you have a normal 5/2 solenoid valves or servo valves. If they are servo valves then great!

    Here is someone who has successfully made a pneumatic sim, but had the advantage of having the expensive parts donated! http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-Pneumatic-Flight-Simulator/?ALLSTEPS
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Barry

    Barry Active Member

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    The valve just acts like a switch like the basic valves you have. Faster usually just means bigger and more powerful magnets opening them faster. No need for a transistor.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. cgodwin

    cgodwin Active Member Gold Contributor

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    The transistor (or a relay) is necessary since you can't run a 24VDC coil directly off the Arduino. But yes - the need for a transistor isn't related to whether a fast acting or standard valve is used.

    With the coil taking 1.28W at 24VDC, that means you are pulling 53 mA. That is a pretty low current level. All relays will handle it, and even a small transistor in a TO-92 package should be fine. A generic 2N2222 should be plenty. The IRZ44 or TIP122 you were considering are bigger than you need, but would be fine and give you plenty of safety margin.
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  14. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    Hi cgodwin, Do not worry, I do not believe that only the use of a PWM signal on my solenoid valve actuator permit me to achieve a smooth controlled motion of my cylinders and vary the speed of travel....

    Look at this:

    How many cycle needed to play Star Wars music? Few thousand cycle? More? Less?
    Ask your local pneumatic supply shop about playing some music With only one unit of 3/2 solenoid valve? He will go probably answering you the same thing as the last time when he discouraged you about usage of pneumatic cylinders as simulator motion source. (he didn't think it's possible?)
    But someone did it !

    About lifetime of solenoid, for my personal use, when they does operates anymore , they are really dead ! If not, it's good.(I dont measure the numbers of cycle)
    I'm not a factory with thousands $ on the table. If a cylinder stop to operate due to a solenoid failure, I will not die! I will can be patient two days in waiting of my new unit.
    For now I do not pretend to build a true simulator but try to work at the control of the movement of a pneumatic cylinder to achieve enough precision as request a simulator.


    No, it's a 5/3 solenoid valves (same speed as the one on the video but with 5 Port and 3 positions!)


    Thank you for this link.
    some explanation are useful thing to know. But unfortunately the electronic isn't detailed.
    Regards
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  15. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    Thanks for infos about transistor able to interfacing arduino with solenoid. I have some 2N2222 in stock.
    I will go try it soon. I need some diodes to protect arduino of surge peak before fried it.
  16. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    @Barry and @cgodwin
    I adhere to the say of cgodwin about necessity of transistor.
    And I already know that the need of transistor is not related to use a fast acting or standard valve.

    But my question was rather: What is the appropriate transistor that allow me to actuating a coil in hard condition without thermal dissipation issue ?
  17. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    As i have seen a mosfet can do the job also if you know how to match it with your setup.But the thermal junction,thermal dissipation... and other thing are too far for me. I'm not electronician of job ! just for fun.
  18. piorck

    piorck Member

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    this superb interpretation of star wars
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  19. cgodwin

    cgodwin Active Member Gold Contributor

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    You don't need a heat sink at all. If my calculations are correct (I'm no expert) even with a 2N2222 transistor in a tiny TO-92 package you will only end up with an 8 degree C temperature rise at the junction (inside of the transistor) with no heat sink. That is way to low to be a problem. If you use the IRZ44 or TIP122 you could run the thing all day long with no heat sink, and it wouldn't feel even a little warm to the touch.
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  20. SixCyl

    SixCyl Member

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    @cgodwin,
    Thanks, your help is much appreciated.